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Author Topic: Gist R1b: Finding the Y Haplogroups of Ancestors Outside Your Own Y-DNA Line  (Read 1495 times)
rms2
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« on: April 28, 2012, 12:39:42 PM »

I am interested in collecting, in a manner of speaking, the y haplogroups of male ancestors not in my own y-dna line, that is, of the fathers of the females from whom I descend. Thus far, I have two confirmed in my basket, both on my father's side: Washburn, which, it turns out, is I1 (I-M253), and Holmes, which is E1b1b (E-M215).

My mother's maiden surname was Gist. Checking the Gist DNA project, I noticed that its "Group 4" lists my most distant Gist ancestor as its most distant y-dna ancestor. The listed y haplogroup is R1b1a2, and apparently neither of the two entries has been SNP tested. The haplotype borders on the N-S Cluster, however, with 437=15, 448=18, and H4=10. It is one off the N-S Cluster, which is characterized by 437=14, as well as 448=18 and H4=10. That Gist haplotype is close. Could it be Z196+, Z209+, etc.? Maybe.

Anyway, I am trying to confirm the relationship right now.

Sadly, my mom's last remaining brother passed away back in 2008. Although I had intended to ask him to have his y-dna tested, I never did. I regret that.

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 12:41:47 PM by rms2 » Logged

Jean M
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2012, 12:52:47 PM »

That is an unusual name. Have you looked at the distribution in the UK in 1881. It is solidly SW England.
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rms2
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2012, 01:00:36 PM »

That is an unusual name. Have you looked at the distribution in the UK in 1881. It is solidly SW England.

As a matter of fact I have. It is unusual.

It is an old surname in North America and, fortunately, pretty well documented (unlike my own y-dna line).

The wife of my immigrant Gist ancestor was Edith Cromwell, the niece of the Oliver Cromwell, btw.
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Jean M
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 02:16:01 PM »

Oh wow!
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 03:00:33 PM »

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.

Yes, I have tried this. I convinced my cousin (son of my mother's brother) to test after some hard arm-twisting. Even considered doing a WTY, but it appears they need a new sample and I doubt I will get him to agree to another cheek swipe (fear of unintended information disclosure). Anyway, my maternal grandfather Y-DNA turned out to be J-M410 [J2a*].
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

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rms2
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 07:54:57 PM »

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.

Yes, I have tried this. I convinced my cousin (son of my mother's brother) to test after some hard arm-twisting. Even considered doing a WTY, but it appears they need a new sample and I doubt I will get him to agree to another cheek swipe (fear of unintended information disclosure). Anyway, my maternal grandfather Y-DNA turned out to be J-M410 [J2a*].

Very cool!

I especially like finding the ones that are not R1b; not that I have anything against R1b, obviously. It's just kind of exotic to find some other y haplogroups in one's pedigree.
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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 08:28:23 PM »

Oh wow!

I need to correct that, Jean. Edith Cromwell was the daughter of Oliver Cromwell's cousin, Sir Oliver Cromwell. I knew they were related, but I thought I remembered that she was his niece.
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Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 02:42:25 PM »

I am interested in collecting, in a manner of speaking, the y haplogroups of male ancestors not in my own y-dna line, that is, of the fathers of the females from whom I descend. Thus far, I have two confirmed in my basket, both on my father's side: Washburn, which, it turns out, is I1 (I-M253), and Holmes, which is E1b1b (E-M215).

My mother's maiden surname was Gist. Checking the Gist DNA project, I noticed that its "Group 4" lists my most distant Gist ancestor as its most distant y-dna ancestor. The listed y haplogroup is R1b1a2, and apparently neither of the two entries has been SNP tested. The haplotype borders on the N-S Cluster, however, with 437=15, 448=18, and H4=10. It is one off the N-S Cluster, which is characterized by 437=14, as well as 448=18 and H4=10. That Gist haplotype is close. Could it be Z196+, Z209+, etc.? Maybe.

Anyway, I am trying to confirm the relationship right now.

Sadly, my mom's last remaining brother passed away back in 2008. Although I had intended to ask him to have his y-dna tested, I never did. I regret that.

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.
My paternal Grandmother's surname was Hays and I am  finding oddly enough that most Hays (Hay in Scotland) are extremely close to my y-dna numbers!   

Also I looked up the Gist study and I match exactly with the first kit in group 1 as well as very close to the others of group 1.
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
rms2
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 07:49:55 AM »

I heard from somebody from the Gist DNA project, and it looks like the folks in Group 2 are the ones I am looking for, not those in Group 4. Apparently those in Group 2 actually have the good paper trails to my most distant Gist ancestor.

Well, I'm making progress in sorting it out.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 12:24:35 PM »

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.
Yes Rich, I have tested the brother of my mother. The paternal name of my mother is Rochais and its origine is in the south of the mouth of the Loire river. He is I1-M253, and I have to order a deep clade test to know more about this line.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

eochaidh
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 05:11:54 PM »

My theory is that if your from Western Europe, you probably have all the known Y-Haplogroups in your ancestry. I'm 75% Irish, Scots-Irish and 25% French-Canadian, so I'd imagine that I have quite a few R-L21+ lines.

Anyway, I went searching...

My maternal grandfather was an Erskine from Belfast and the only Erskine from Belfast I found was an L21.

My paternal grandmather was a Quinn from Co. Derry and the closes Derry Quinn I could find was a G2a3b1a. Most of the Quinns from Tyrone, Donegal and nearby were L21 or M222, but you never know.

I've got Taaffes fro Co. Dublin and Co. Louth and the ones I found were R1b basic.

My mom aslo had McDonalds on her side and they're R1a, R1b and I found an R-176+.

On the French-Canadian side I wasn't surprised not to find a Coursolle, but I was very surprised not to find any Richard testers! I found a Paquin who was U152.

None of these are for certain, but from what I've seen, the Erskines and Taaffes have always been R1b.

I should check projects (duh!) instead of just Ysearch and the French Heritage site.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 08:17:16 PM »

My theory is that if your from Western Europe, you probably have all the known Y-Haplogroups in your ancestry. I'm 75% Irish, Scots-Irish and 25% French-Canadian, so I'd imagine that I have quite a few R-L21+ lines.

Anyway, I went searching...

My maternal grandfather was an Erskine from Belfast and the only Erskine from Belfast I found was an L21.

My paternal grandmather was a Quinn from Co. Derry and the closes Derry Quinn I could find was a G2a3b1a. Most of the Quinns from Tyrone, Donegal and nearby were L21 or M222, but you never know.

I've got Taaffes fro Co. Dublin and Co. Louth and the ones I found were R1b basic.

My mom aslo had McDonalds on her side and they're R1a, R1b and I found an R-176+.

On the French-Canadian side I wasn't surprised not to find a Coursolle, but I was very surprised not to find any Richard testers! I found a Paquin who was U152.

None of these are for certain, but from what I've seen, the Erskines and Taaffes have always been R1b.

I should check projects (duh!) instead of just Ysearch and the French Heritage site.

Erskine is a Lowland Scottish name, I think. There is also one who plays for the Washington Capitals (if you follow the NHL Playoffs).
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eochaidh
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 10:01:13 PM »



Erskine is a Lowland Scottish name, I think. There is also one who plays for the Washington Capitals (if you follow the NHL Playoffs).

That NHL John Erskine could easily be an Erskine from my line. He looks very much like my great uncle. Thanks for the tip. The photo jumped out to me. He's from Ontario, though.

My Erskine line is actually directly related to John Erskine the 17th Earl of Mar. His grandson, James Erskine, was given lands in Augher, Co. Tyrone in the early 1600s. My family was in Tyrone until the early 1800s and then moved to Co. Down. None of this get's me anything! :) I hear my great grandfather was very proud, though.

Yea, they were from Renfrew and Clackmannan. Actually, they were very prominent in Scots History. The last Erskine I spoke with was my mom's second cousin, Herbert Erskine, in 1992. I was in Belfast at the time and he lived in Crumlin nearby. He was about 84, then so.... My mom also had a first cousin who lived in Maryland, but I don't know him.

I have Erskine Mar & Kellie tattooed on my right shoulder around a Celtic knot  :)
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ebmarcheschi
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2014, 09:47:56 PM »

My father was supposedly Norwegian, at least back to 1600. His Haplogroup was R1b1a2, more common in England. My mother's mtDNA came back as U5a2c3a, and her entire maternal line was from Stoke Climsland, Cornwall, England, documented to 1721. GIST is not part of that U5a2c3a mtDNA, but is married into that line. Mary Ann Gist, daughter of Nicholas and Mary Veal GIST, was my 3x great-grandmother. Her son, James Bennetts, Jr. married Martha Pearce in 1863 and Martha was a carrier of my mtDNA line. I have researched the GIST family way back if you're interested in it. The name also was spelled Guest, Guist, Giste, Gyste, and other spellings. They are from the far eastern side of Cornwall, England, along the border with Devon.
Beth
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Webb
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 10:47:18 PM »

I am interested in collecting, in a manner of speaking, the y haplogroups of male ancestors not in my own y-dna line, that is, of the fathers of the females from whom I descend. Thus far, I have two confirmed in my basket, both on my father's side: Washburn, which, it turns out, is I1 (I-M253), and Holmes, which is E1b1b (E-M215).

My mother's maiden surname was Gist. Checking the Gist DNA project, I noticed that its "Group 4" lists my most distant Gist ancestor as its most distant y-dna ancestor. The listed y haplogroup is R1b1a2, and apparently neither of the two entries has been SNP tested. The haplotype borders on the N-S Cluster, however, with 437=15, 448=18, and H4=10. It is one off the N-S Cluster, which is characterized by 437=14, as well as 448=18 and H4=10. That Gist haplotype is close. Could it be Z196+, Z209+, etc.? Maybe.

Anyway, I am trying to confirm the relationship right now.

Sadly, my mom's last remaining brother passed away back in 2008. Although I had intended to ask him to have his y-dna tested, I never did. I regret that.

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.
My paternal Grandmother's surname was Hays and I am  finding oddly enough that most Hays (Hay in Scotland) are extremely close to my y-dna numbers!   

Also I looked up the Gist study and I match exactly with the first kit in group 1 as well as very close to the others of group 1.

Curtis, would your Hays have been in Coryell, Texas?
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William B. Webb
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2014, 04:42:21 PM »

Quote
her entire maternal line was from Stoke Climsland, Cornwall,
Mmhmm. My father's mother's mother's dad (and uncle), were from Stoke Climsland.  Downgate, to be exact. Down there they were Gest, on moving to Lancashire they became Guest (there was a pre-existing large, old surname of that spelling there). Copperminers, shifted Oop North when that trade went down, and used their deep-mining skills to win coal.

Just seen your email, Beth. It's a wrap. We's cousins o' some sorts.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 04:57:40 PM by glentane » Logged
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2014, 05:01:40 PM »

I am interested in collecting, in a manner of speaking, the y haplogroups of male ancestors not in my own y-dna line, that is, of the fathers of the females from whom I descend. Thus far, I have two confirmed in my basket, both on my father's side: Washburn, which, it turns out, is I1 (I-M253), and Holmes, which is E1b1b (E-M215).

My mother's maiden surname was Gist. Checking the Gist DNA project, I noticed that its "Group 4" lists my most distant Gist ancestor as its most distant y-dna ancestor. The listed y haplogroup is R1b1a2, and apparently neither of the two entries has been SNP tested. The haplotype borders on the N-S Cluster, however, with 437=15, 448=18, and H4=10. It is one off the N-S Cluster, which is characterized by 437=14, as well as 448=18 and H4=10. That Gist haplotype is close. Could it be Z196+, Z209+, etc.? Maybe.

Anyway, I am trying to confirm the relationship right now.

Sadly, my mom's last remaining brother passed away back in 2008. Although I had intended to ask him to have his y-dna tested, I never did. I regret that.

Have you had any luck finding the y haplogroups of the fathers of your female ancestors?

It's fun to try.
My paternal Grandmother's surname was Hays and I am  finding oddly enough that most Hays (Hay in Scotland) are extremely close to my y-dna numbers!  

Also I looked up the Gist study and I match exactly with the first kit in group 1 as well as very close to the others of group 1.

Curtis, would your Hays have been in Coryell, Texas?
Nope, Eastern Kentucky.  However I think there is an undiscovered link with our Hays family to the group of Hays' in Tennessee, Alabama, to Texas route.  They may lead back to a common ancestor in colonial Virginia.  I will look up my Hays path and get back to you.

Curtis
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 05:02:34 PM by Curtis Pigman(Pigmon) » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2014, 05:49:01 PM »

My 5th great grandfather John Hay b.17 Sept 1729 Glammis Parrish, County Angus, Scotland m. 12 July 1724 Mary Stafford - King Georges County, Virginia.

John Hay was a Jacobite.  He was captured at the battle of  Preston with 630 other Scots.  He was transported on the "Friendship" Captained by Michael Mankin from Liverpool to Port Tobacco Maryland and arrived May 24. 1716.  He was sold as an indentured servant to William Holmes Aug 24, 1716.  William Holmes apparently had a plantation in Prince Georges Co. Maryland. 

John Hays, John Jr. Hays, Charles Hays, Lewis Hays, and Luke Hays were all property owners and had property listed on the 1782 tax list in Montgomery County Virginia

He left Montgomery County VA, with George "All" Sizemore in 1787 for KY.

There is more on the Hay(s) family of Kentucky on my website at:
curtisnsissy.tripod.com

Curtis
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
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