Haplogroup K from Erding (Upper Bavaria)

[Maliclavelli]

Of course the sample EKF 1717 (Sofeso et al., Verifying archaeological hypotheses: Investigations on origin and genealogical lineages of a privileged society in Upper Bavaria from Imperial Roman times (Erding, Kletthamer Feld)), with the mutations in HVRI: 16124C, 16224C, 16311C [and I’d add 16519C] isn’t haplogroup H but K. There are two samples on Mitosearch (2QJH9 and DBY9D) from Lithuania and probably of Jewish people, and this demonstrates once more that the Jewish pool derives mostly from introgressions from Italy or the Rhine valley. The people found at Erding were Romans, as the paper says, probably from many places of the Roman Empire, but also hg. E1b1b1a could find its closest link in Italy (see Ferri 2009, Modena province).

[Maliclavelli]

And why Behar 2012b, with these samples:

N104753   K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C  
138125   K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C  
N19421 washington dc K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
N27117   K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
N65663   K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
131195 Ireland K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
32782 Lucretia Weeks, b.~1810 L.I., NY K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
93683   K 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
100835   K2a 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 143A, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
158521 John Bond, b.c. 1459, Coventry, England K2a 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
101963   K2a 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C
25928 Nancy Caroline Johnson.1820 TN 1873 AR K2a 16124C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16519C 73G, 146C, 152C, 263G, 315.1C

where are in HVRI the mutations 16124C and 16293G hasn’t created a subclade of K2a?
And why he has put in K2a these samples tested also for the coding region with the mutations:

JQ702771: G143A G10398A(N) T11204C C12870T A14750G

EU884127: G10398A(N) T11204C C12870T A14750G

HM804486: T8265Y G10398A(N) T11204C C12870T A14750G T14968Y ?

[Maliclavelli]

William Hurst replied to me on eng.molgen:
Hi Gioiello and all,

Those in K2a with HVR1 mutations 16124C and 16293G will probably be a new, deeper subclade eventually, especially since it also has three defining coding-region mutations. But right now there are not the required three significantly different haplotypes. On GenBank there are two in the "ancestral haplotype" - no extra mutations. A third one has 143A, which although an HVR mutation, is not a recurrent or common one in K. That's two haplotypes. Another one has just two heteroplasmies as extras. Heteroplasmies do not count when determining haplotypes of matches, so this is technically the same haplotype as the two ancestral ones. So, we are stuck at two. Patience will be rewarded.

Bill Hurst

My response:
I thank you, William, you are right, but you can see that of these haplotypes with HVRI and II there are many: it would be enough that one of them did and FGS, also the two Jewesses, who are probably of German origin. They have also my mutation in 11204, non synonymous, but which has probably no medical meaning (my mother is 88 years old and feels very well).
I have been interested to this haplotype for the mutation in 16124 found in Bavaria of people lived during the Roman Empire, even though the mutation in 16293 happened before that in 16124, then these haplotypes probably aren’t linked, but probably something of the ancient DNA has been lost (see the lack of 16519C).