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Author Topic: Ancient DNA from Neolithic Sweden (Skoglund et al. 2012)  (Read 3954 times)
Heber
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« on: April 27, 2012, 02:19:49 AM »

This is a very interesting new paper on the spread of the Neolithic, using SNP analysis and with a very good review by Dienekes.

"A new paper in Science solidifies the case for migration as the cause for the diffusion of agriculture in Europe. Discontinuity between early Neolithic farmers and Mesolithic foragers in Central Europe had provided strong hints about this discontinuity, and these were confirmed by other ancient European DNA, e.g., from Treilles, or the Tyrolean Iceman. The case now appears irrefutable, that people not ideas were involved in the spread farming to the northern fringes of Europe."

"This farming spread must have been by boat. There were no native aurochs on Zealand (Aaris-Sorensen 1980), so the early cattle at Akonge were definitely imported. Farther north, agriculture was probably carried by boat up the coasts, an easier method of travel than overland (see above). Baltic crossings would require longer open-water voyages than in the Cardial or LBK. Irish curraghs can, however, make substantial voyages and weather considerable seas (Hornell 1938, sec. 5:17–21), and a large one has even crossed the Atlantic (Severin 1978)."

"Two models have dominated European prehistory in recent decades: acculturationists claimed that the Neolithic package of domesticated plants and animals was transmitted across the continent while the people largely stayed put, while demic diffusionists claimed that people did move, but -at least in the most popular version of the model- that they gradually intermarried with local hunter-gatherers, forming a genetic cline of ancestry, at the far end of which the farmers were mostly derived from local foragers."

"Both these models are now revealed to be wrong: rather, it seems that "leapfrog" colonization may be responsible for the spread of agriculture and its associated technologies (such as Megalithism) across Europe. In this model, farmers lept from place to place across the landscape intentionally, preserving their gene pool and largely ignoring the pre-existing foragers of the landscape."

"The second important point of the new study is the revelation that the single Neolithic individual from northernmost Europe was similar to extant southern Europeans:
The Neolithic hunter-gatherers shared most alleles with Northern Europeans, and the lowest allele sharing was with populations from Southeastern Europe (Fig. 3A). In contrast, the Neolithic farmer shared the greatest fraction of alleles with Southeastern European populations (Cypriots and Greeks), and showed a pattern of decreasing genetic similarity for populations from the Northwest and Northeast extremes of Europe (Fig. 3B). "

http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2012/04/ancient-dna-from-neolithic-sweden.html

"The farming way of life originated in the Near East some 11,000 years ago and had reached most of the European continent 5000 years later. However, the impact of the agricultural revolution on demography and patterns of genomic variation in Europe remains unknown. We obtained 249 million base pairs of genomic DNA from ~5000-year-old remains of three hunter-gatherers and one farmer excavated in Scandinavia and find that the farmer is genetically most similar to extant southern Europeans, contrasting sharply to the hunter-gatherers, whose distinct genetic signature is most similar to that of extant northern Europeans. Our results suggest that migration from southern Europe catalyzed the spread of agriculture and that admixture in the wake of this expansion eventually shaped the genomic landscape of modern-day Europe."

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/466.abstract

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/466/suppl/DC1

« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 08:11:11 AM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
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secherbernard
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 09:01:23 AM »

The supplemental data give the haplotypes of the samples. It is a good thing they perform complete sequencing:

http://secher.bernard.free.fr/DNA/2012_Skoglund_Haplotypes.png
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 09:07:12 AM by secherbernard » Logged

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razyn
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 09:33:37 AM »


[quoting from Dienekes, not the Skoglund paper]

"... the early cattle at Akonge were definitely imported. Farther north, agriculture was probably carried by boat up the coasts, an easier method of travel than overland (see above). Baltic crossings would require longer open-water voyages than in the Cardial or LBK. Irish curraghs can, however, make substantial voyages and weather considerable seas (Hornell 1938, sec. 5:17–21), and a large one has even crossed the Atlantic (Severin 1978)."

It seems strange to me that people would still talk about curraghs in this context, and not mention proper longboats of sewn plank construction.  If I had to cross the Baltic with an aurochs (perish the thought), I think I'd rather have more wood under me.  There is a gap of about fifteen minutes between the date of these neolithic remains (~5000 ybp) and the dates of the earliest extant large plank boats, such as the Dover boat and the Abydos boats.  Those artifacts show that the technology for large sewn boats was well developed, both north and south of peninsular Europe, within a couple of centuries or so of the subjects of this study.

I know that Cunliffe, Europe Between the Oceans, heads his chapter seven "Taking to the Sea... 2800-1300 B.C."  But if we need to kick that back two or three hundred years, in the context of five thousand it doesn't seem very radical or speculative, to me.

There was also an interesting aside in the Dienekes commentary about the absence of R1 haplotypes in the neolithic aDNA record, so far.  I wouldn't swear that it had any direct relationship with the content of this new paper, which I have yet to read -- but it was mentioned, anyway.
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 10:19:47 AM »

There was also an interesting aside in the Dienekes commentary about the absence of R1 haplotypes in the neolithic aDNA record, so far. 
Dienekes’ comment is pathetic, as to these haplogroups (or autosomal) found in Sweden had come from Greece!
1)   Ancient Greeks were Indo-Europeans come from the Balkans
2)   We don’t know how much Modern Greeks get of the Ancient ones, after Slav, Albanian, Venetian etc. supplies
3)   To deny that mtDNA H is Western European is the same pathetic, after that all the last researches, from that on the Croatians to the last of Behar et al., are clearly reticent. I believe that the haplogroups found in aDNA from Iberia are hg. H, because I think that all my researches I posted here and elsewhere have demonstrated the pathway from R0ab to HV to H in Italy and in Western Europe. Re: YDNA R1, as I think having demonstrated the same pathway of R1b1 in Italy, I want to assure Dienekes that hg R will be soon found in Western European aDNA.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 11:09:58 AM »

I don't agree with Dienekes on everything so just because I'm quoting him does not mean I think everything he says is indisputable.
Quote from: Dienekes
The case now appears irrefutable, that people not ideas were involved in the spread farming to the northern fringes of Europe.
....
So, it appears that these individuals lived at roughly the same time and within a small area of Europe, and yet they are as different from each other as the most distant current European populations are. These were not simply drawn from the same or similar populations, some of them deciding to take up farming while others to practice fishing and hunting. These were different populations who maintained their distinctiveness long after "first contact".

I don't think I do this very often (say "I told you so",) but I'll dredge up from memory something I posted quite some time ago on DNA-forums. I apologize in advance, but it does make me sad.

I know and have lived by farmers, ranchers and Native Americans. I can tell you that people who have a long ingrained "way of life" do not make major changes easily, and I think in most cases not at all.  I've done financial analyses for some of these folks and it always amazed me that often did not take steps to optimize their finances. Many a farmer farms because that is just what he / she does. Agriculturalists are not broad agriculturalists.  I'm citing the extremes a bit here but a "corn grower" is really a "corn grower" not really a "farmer" and definitely not a "gardener", which would be something (in their view) that some types of bean growers are. Ranchers are generally very clear to separate themselves from "farming" and of course we know of the range wars. Herders are not just herders as sheep herders are definitely of a different kind that is disdained by the ranchers and almost everybody.
The same goes for the hunter-gatherer.  Movies are just movies, but the one about "Wounded Knee" illustrated some practices, that to me, were sad.  Some folks won't manage a cattle herd for long term survival of the clan. They'd rather turn them loose and kill them as they would hunting for bison. It's just their "way of life."  It reminds me of the old  commercial with the guy with a black eye - "I'd rather fight than switch."

I think the story in Latin American countries is a bit different. The Roman Catholic church had a strong mission there. I'm not at all saying it was a nice situation but I think there strong incentives and force applied to endoctrination and mixing families.  My father-in-law has a European Y hg but a Native American mt hg. I think this is pretty common.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 04:50:18 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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Heber
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 02:07:19 PM »

There was also an interesting aside in the Dienekes commentary about the absence of R1 haplotypes in the neolithic aDNA record, so far.  
Dienekes’ comment is pathetic, as to these haplogroups (or autosomal) found in Sweden had come from Greece!
1)   Ancient Greeks were Indo-Europeans come from the Balkans
2)   We don’t know how much Modern Greeks get of the Ancient ones, after Slav, Albanian, Venetian etc. supplies
3)   To deny that mtDNA H is Western European is the same pathetic, after that all the last researches, from that on the Croatians to the last of Behar et al., are clearly reticent. I believe that the haplogroups found in aDNA from Iberia are hg. H, because I think that all my researches I posted here and elsewhere have demonstrated the pathway from R0ab to HV to H in Italy and in Western Europe. Re: YDNA R1, as I think having demonstrated the same pathway of R1b1 in Italy, I want to assure Dienekes that hg R will be soon found in Western European aDNA.


If you look at table S15 page 58, Estimates Neolithic farmer ancestry in European populations, you will see that
Sardinia 95%
North Italian 78 %
Italian 77%
Tuscan 69%
French Basque 65%
are highest ranking

I find it interesting that this study also confirms H as a Neolithic farmer maritime and U4 and T as Neolithic Hunter Gatherer haplogroup. If you look at the migration routes of H they were similar to R1b-M269 following the maritime route from Anatolia to Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Iberia, France and possibly branching to Isles and Scandanavia.
The first out of Anatolia wave was to the Greek islands using fleets of boats carrying cargos of up to 20 tonnes.
I assume the Baltic crossing was using calves, sheep and pigs, "Hog tied" to prevent disruption to the boat.




« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 02:08:24 PM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 03:27:36 PM »

If you look at the migration routes of H they were similar to R1b-M269 following the maritime route from Anatolia to Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Iberia, France and possibly branching to Isles and Scandanavia.
The paper isn't for free and I have only now upload the supplements. I'll read them to-morrow. Anyway in another thread many of us (me but also some Basques) have denied that hg. H is neolithic in Europe and I have written a lot about these mt haplogroups. About the paper of course I shall read it, but we have seen in the past many similar papers. First of all I suggest to you to investigate who funded the paper. Anyway I'll study it next, as I always do.
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Maliclavelli


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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 03:39:04 PM »

If you look at table S15 page 58, Estimates Neolithic farmer ancestry in European populations, you will see that Sardinia 95% North Italian 78 % Italian 77% Tuscan 69% French Basque 65% are highest ranking
Of course I shall study the paper, but what these data are demonstrating? Where is the link with Middle East? They could demonstrate what I have always said, that the expansion of agriculturalists to Central Europe (but before to Iberia) began from Italy and not from Middle East. That mtDNA H and Y R1b are from Middle East is your thinking, but not mine. If R1b is from Middle East how it is mt H, I'll sleep quietly.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 03:40:03 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


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rms2
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 06:53:27 AM »

Just to let everyone know: I will move this topic to the mtDNA subforum, since it apparently has nothing to do with R1b, except tangentially.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 01:03:28 PM »

Dienekes has published a “A first look at the DNA of Neolithic inhabitants from Sweden“.

Please ask him where is the Middle Eastern origin, because I haven’t seen it.

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Maliclavelli


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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 03:26:32 PM »

Tim Janzen writes on Rootsweb:

Dear All,
A new study published yesterday in Science analyzed autosomal DNA
from 5000 year old bones in Sweden. The results show that the autosomal
sequences from 3 samples from the island of Gotland from a hunter-gatherer
contact associated with the Pitted Ware Culture were most similar to
sequences of people from Finland and that the autosomal sequence from one
sample from Gökhem parish from a farming context associated with the Funnel
Beaker Culture was most similar to sequences of people from Southern Europe,
particularly Italy.

I haven't read nothing of this from Dienekes.
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Maliclavelli


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