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Author Topic: R-L21: Three new subclades - Big Kahuna, DF13, and DF49, DF63  (Read 11307 times)
df.reynolds
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« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2012, 11:24:17 PM »

Thank you Nora, for testing your cousin -- he came back as DF49+ DF23-, proving that DF49 is indeed above DF23.

33932     Patrick Hopkins bef 1820   DF13+, DF23-, DF49+, L144-, L159.2-, L193-, L21+, L226-, L302+, L319.1+, L96-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M173+, M18-, M207+, M222-, M269+, M343+, M37-, M65-, M73-, P107-, P25+, P312+, P314.2-, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198-, Z253-

--david
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2012, 11:26:34 PM »

Okay, numbers 4 and 10 above are taken care of, as well. Whelan, kit 83115, who is L144+, and Irvine, kit 22874, who is L555+, have ordered DF49.

Hooray!

I believe all the bases are covered now.

22874    William Irvine, born 1784, Minto Village, Scotland    R1b1    R-P25    DF23-, DF49-, L555+, L557+, L561+, P25+

N54638    Thomas Walsh,bc.1795,Co.Kilkenny,IRE(WLS)L513+    R1b1a2a1a1b4    R-L21    DF49-, DF5-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L21+, L226-, L513+, L577-, L705+, L705.2+, L706.2+, L908-, L909-, L96-, M153-, M222-, M269+, M37-, M65-, P312+, P314.2-, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-

83115    Hugh Whalin b c1800, Clonbrock Co Laois IRL    R1b1a2a1a1b4e    R-L144    DF13+, DF41-, DF49-, L130-, L144+, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195+, L21+, L226-, L513-, L96-, M153-, M222-, M269+, M37-, M65-, P312+, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, Z254-, Z255-

145178    Griffeth bc1567Stepney-London;son Joshua DF21/DF5+    R1b1a2a1a1b4    R-L21    DF21+, DF49-, DF5+, L10-, L130-, L144-, L147.3-, L159.2-, L176.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L194-, L195-, L196-, L21+, L220-, L221-, L226-, L513-, L61-, L62-, L627-, L63-, L658-, L7-, L8-, L86.2-, L9-, L95-, L96-, M222-, M37-, P312+, P314.2-, P66-, U152-, Z248+


I believe the only outstanding test is for R-L371, Kit 181160 (Thomas).

A big thank you to all who tested, as well as to Rich for taking care of get the remaining tests ordered that were needed for DF49 to qualify for the ISOGG tree.

Regards,
david
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 11:43:21 PM by df.reynolds » Logged
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #102 on: August 09, 2012, 11:34:52 PM »

Thank you Nora, for testing your cousin -- he came back as DF49+ DF23-, proving that DF49 is indeed above DF23.


... and to think that one time DF49 was considered by some to be redundant. We have to keep assessing these SNPs and make sure the wrong ones don't fall by the way side.  Great work!
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2012, 12:11:10 AM »

... and to think that one time DF49 was considered by some to be redundant. We have to keep assessing these SNPs and make sure the wrong ones don't fall by the way side.  Great work!

I've really come to dislike the word redundant. :)

--david
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rms2
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« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2012, 12:12:39 AM »

I see I am too late to spread any new news.

Shucks! ;-)

That's what I get for giving up, going downstairs and watching Gladiator for the umpteenth time (and savoring a glass of Evan Williams whiskey).

Roma victor!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 12:16:00 AM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2012, 12:27:13 AM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .
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rms2
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« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2012, 01:29:46 AM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .

I should add that Hopkins, our confirmed DF49+ DF23- guy, also has 481=22.

Hmmm . . . hmmm! ;-)
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2012, 02:51:47 AM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .
I think I will be surprised if Leister is DF23+. 

--david
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rms2
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« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2012, 09:56:49 AM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .
I think I will be surprised if Leister is DF23+. 

--david

I agree. He and Hopkins have 481=22, but no one in DF23+ or M222+ has a value that low there.
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rms2
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« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2012, 11:55:28 AM »

Leister has ordered DF23, so we'll find out if he stays in the DF49 category with Hopkins or not.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2012, 01:55:51 PM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .

I should add that Hopkins, our confirmed DF49+ DF23- guy, also has 481=22.

Hmmm . . . hmmm! ;-)
Yes, it does appear we can see the incremental changes in 481 through the SNP trail.
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rms2
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2012, 11:28:25 PM »

*GONG!!!*

That's the sound of the gong on the old "Gong Show" from the 1970s. Sorry if you young whippersnappers missed it.

Anyway, Thomas, our L371+ guy, just got his DF49- result. So, I guess that's it, then.

DF49 is between DF13 and DF23, but that's all.
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df.reynolds
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« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2012, 02:23:51 AM »

*GONG!!!*

That's the sound of the gong on the old "Gong Show" from the 1970s. Sorry if you young whippersnappers missed it.

Anyway, Thomas, our L371+ guy, just got his DF49- result. So, I guess that's it, then.

DF49 is between DF13 and DF23, but that's all.
Chuck Barris -- now that was a comedic genius.

Hopefully will have news soon on the L21 re-test for the Welsh P312+ L459+ Z245+ L21- guy; with DF49 out of the way, it is next up on the "special attention" list, I think. :)

--david
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2012, 11:20:39 PM »

That's the sound of the gong on the old "Gong Show" from the 1970s. Sorry if you young whippersnappers missed it.....

If you are calling me "young", thank you. I need to get in shape.
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rms2
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« Reply #114 on: August 22, 2012, 12:11:36 AM »

Well, argiedude is DF13+. That gives us one weird haplotype for our club.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #115 on: August 22, 2012, 12:52:03 AM »

Well, argiedude is DF13+. That gives us one weird haplotype for our club.

Rich, remember what I have been saying from years:
1)   to test these Kellaways, who are the closest to him
2)   to test some relative in Italy to be sure that this is his descent
3)   after we’ll be able to search where an Italian Lake Region R-L21/DF13+ come from.
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Maliclavelli


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rms2
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« Reply #116 on: August 22, 2012, 09:09:08 AM »

Well, argiedude is DF13+. That gives us one weird haplotype for our club.

Rich, remember what I have been saying from years:
1)   to test these Kellaways, who are the closest to him
2)   to test some relative in Italy to be sure that this is his descent
3)   after we’ll be able to search where an Italian Lake Region R-L21/DF13+ come from.


No response from the Kellaways (which is also what happened when I wrote them a couple of years ago).

I don't know whether or not argiedude has relatives in Italy. Getting him to answer an email at all is a game of chance, and he is a very private person, not even including his surname in his Ysearch entry or on his FTDNA pages.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #117 on: August 22, 2012, 09:45:04 AM »

No response from the Kellaways (which is also what happened when I wrote them a couple of years ago).
I don't know whether or not argiedude has relatives in Italy. Getting him to answer an email at all is a game of chance, and he is a very private person, not even including his surname in his Ysearch entry or on his FTDNA pages.
Then we cannot build theories upon these people. R-L21 in Italy remains a chimera.
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Maliclavelli


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rms2
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« Reply #118 on: August 22, 2012, 02:42:33 PM »

No response from the Kellaways (which is also what happened when I wrote them a couple of years ago).
I don't know whether or not argiedude has relatives in Italy. Getting him to answer an email at all is a game of chance, and he is a very private person, not even including his surname in his Ysearch entry or on his FTDNA pages.
Then we cannot build theories upon these people. R-L21 in Italy remains a chimera.

Like one of my closest matches (the one actually born and raised in England): not cooperating, and so of little use.
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rms2
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« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2012, 12:44:48 AM »

Leister, kit N26284, also got a DF49+ result. He is M222- but has not yet tested for DF23. What is interesting about him is that he has 481=22 (the modal value). If he is DF23+, then he will have the lowest 481 value of any DF23+ guy thus far.

Hmmm . . .

Leister came up DF23+ this morning (it's a bit after midnight where I am), but McElrea, kit 216031, jumped in and took his place. He's DF49+ DF23-.
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rms2
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« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2012, 12:47:08 AM »

I came up with the big goose egg that hatches a minus sign for both Z255 and DF49 this morning.

Ah, well. Now I wait for my cluster brother, Cooper, to get his L371 and DF41 results.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2012, 05:56:45 AM »

Rich,

Do you know if Moreno (131334) in the L21+ project has ordered DF41? Going by Alex Williamson's tree's he clusters in DF41 grouping under both 67 and 111 str trees.

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120727.pdf
http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120803.pdf

Obviously it's not exact there are some mistakes in this especially the 67 STR tree where i see a number of Null425 folks are pulled into DF41 cluster. However given that Moreno seems to fall over near the L744 part of tree it would be interesting to see if he is indeed DF41+

-Paul
(DF41+)
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rms2
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« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2012, 09:57:50 AM »

Rich,

Do you know if Moreno (131334) in the L21+ project has ordered DF41? Going by Alex Williamson's tree's he clusters in DF41 grouping under both 67 and 111 str trees.

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120727.pdf
http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120803.pdf

Obviously it's not exact there are some mistakes in this especially the 67 STR tree where i see a number of Null425 folks are pulled into DF41 cluster. However given that Moreno seems to fall over near the L744 part of tree it would be interesting to see if he is indeed DF41+

-Paul
(DF41+)

He hasn't ordered it that I can see, but Jose is an enthusiastic SNP hunter. I just sent him an email about what you pointed out.

I'm guessing he will order DF41.
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2012, 10:15:46 AM »

Rich,

Do you know if Moreno (131334) in the L21+ project has ordered DF41? Going by Alex Williamson's tree's he clusters in DF41 grouping under both 67 and 111 str trees.

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120727.pdf
http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120803.pdf

Obviously it's not exact there are some mistakes in this especially the 67 STR tree where i see a number of Null425 folks are pulled into DF41 cluster. However given that Moreno seems to fall over near the L744 part of tree it would be interesting to see if he is indeed DF41+

-Paul
(DF41+)

He hasn't ordered it that I can see, but Jose is an enthusiastic SNP hunter. I just sent him an email about what you pointed out.

I'm guessing he will order DF41.

Rich,

Thanks hopefully he will, it will be interesting either way. One it will help validate Alex tree bit more, McMillian and McCrere who are in the 67STR DF41 cluster both came back as DF41+. Given that Jose appears to cluster near the L744+ folk it would be interesting if he is DF41+, and if so then to see what his status is with regards to L744 and L746.

-Paul
(DF41+)
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rms2
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« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2012, 10:26:26 AM »

Rich,

Do you know if Moreno (131334) in the L21+ project has ordered DF41? Going by Alex Williamson's tree's he clusters in DF41 grouping under both 67 and 111 str trees.

http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120727.pdf
http://www.littlescottishcluster.com/RL21/Files/R-L21%20Tree%2020120803.pdf

Obviously it's not exact there are some mistakes in this especially the 67 STR tree where i see a number of Null425 folks are pulled into DF41 cluster. However given that Moreno seems to fall over near the L744 part of tree it would be interesting to see if he is indeed DF41+

-Paul
(DF41+)

He hasn't ordered it that I can see, but Jose is an enthusiastic SNP hunter. I just sent him an email about what you pointed out.

I'm guessing he will order DF41.

Rich,

Thanks hopefully he will, it will be interesting either way. One it will help validate Alex tree bit more, McMillian and McCrere who are in the 67STR DF41 cluster both came back as DF41+. Given that Jose appears to cluster near the L744+ folk it would be interesting if he is DF41+, and if so then to see what his status is with regards to L744 and L746.

-Paul
(DF41+)

We'll know soon, because I just heard back from Jose, and he's ordered DF41 already. :-)
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