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Author Topic: R-L21: Three new subclades - Big Kahuna, DF13, and DF49, DF63  (Read 9539 times)
seferhabahir
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« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2012, 07:58:29 PM »

Two more DF63 results this evening, both negative.

One of those was mine. Oh, well, onward to DF13 whenever it becomes available. Anyone know what is causing the delay for a DF13 SNP test from FTDNA?
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rms2
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« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2012, 08:05:24 PM »

Two more DF63 results this evening, both negative.

One of those was mine. Oh, well, onward to DF13 whenever it becomes available. Anyone know what is causing the delay for a DF13 SNP test from FTDNA?

It's the lucky number?
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2012, 04:34:48 PM »

I see that on the current FTDNA draft tree that DF13 is on the tree with only one SNP under it, this been L526+

Hopefully they offer it soon after which we will need to get all the major clades to test so as to verify there status with regards to DF13.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2012, 08:48:37 PM »

I see that on the current FTDNA draft tree that DF13 is on the tree with only one SNP under it, this been L526+

Hopefully they offer it soon after which we will need to get all the major clades to test so as to verify there status with regards to DF13.

I wonder if it will really turn out to be 90-95% of R-L21. If you click on the SNP you will see that 9 tests have been performed, with one coming out positive (presumably the L526 sample).

count_derived:    1
count_tested:    9
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« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2012, 10:55:15 AM »

I see that on the current FTDNA draft tree that DF13 is on the tree with only one SNP under it, this been L526+

Hopefully they offer it soon after which we will need to get all the major clades to test so as to verify there status with regards to DF13.

I wonder if it will really turn out to be 90-95% of R-L21. If you click on the SNP you will see that 9 tests have been performed, with one coming out positive (presumably the L526 sample).

count_derived:    1
count_tested:    9
I don't really know, which is why I generally shy from making specific percentage type predictions.

We need a lot more testing on DF13.  If I was L21*, I'd definitely test for it.  If positive for DF13, then I'd look at the then current status of DF49, DF21, L513/DF1, Z253 and Z255.  If those are all positive, then I'd make sure I've tested for them as well. For the ones that are negative, there is no need to test.
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Warrior1
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« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2012, 11:41:41 AM »

Greetings All:

Currently L21* here (deepclade results), negative for all typical downstream, just submitted testing for DF63 and DF49, the waiting is the hardest part and I believe the batches go out next Wednesday..Would have liked to see DF13 listed as available but still not there on FTDNA site, however, either a DF63+ or DF49+ really means no need for DF13. In one scenario, DF13 would also be positive (if DF49+) and in the other scenario it would be negative (if DF63+). Does this sound like a correct understanding?

Cheers
Bill
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2012, 12:32:04 PM »

Greetings All:

Currently L21* here (deepclade results), negative for all typical downstream, just submitted testing for DF63 and DF49, the waiting is the hardest part and I believe the batches go out next Wednesday..Would have liked to see DF13 listed as available but still not there on FTDNA site, however, either a DF63+ or DF49+ really means no need for DF13. In one scenario, DF13 would also be positive (if DF49+) and in the other scenario it would be negative (if DF63+). Does this sound like a correct understanding?

Cheers
Bill

Well ideally if you did turn out to DF63+ we could arrange sponsorship for DF13. At the moment no one has tested DF63+ let that we know of. To correctly place both DF13 and DF63 in the tree we need to know their position with regards to each other. So a DF63+ testing DF13- is actually a valuable data point (as is a DF13+ testing DF63-)
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OConnor
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« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2012, 10:32:14 PM »

I just ordered DF13.

(edit) I hope it is available?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:44:25 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


Jdean
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« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2012, 03:44:48 AM »

I just ordered DF13.

(edit) I hope it is available?

Great, as soon as FTDNA will let me back into my account I'll be ordering it as well.

Anybody know any good IT people they can recommend to them, I think they could do with the help :)
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2012, 11:47:50 AM »

I just ordered DF13.

(edit) I hope it is available?

Great, as soon as FTDNA will let me back into my account I'll be ordering it as well.


Not sure how you ordered it. It is not available for testing yet. Does not show up as an available advanced SNP test.
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Jdean
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« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2012, 12:23:13 PM »

I just ordered DF13.

(edit) I hope it is available?

Great, as soon as FTDNA will let me back into my account I'll be ordering it as well.


Not sure how you ordered it. It is not available for testing yet. Does not show up as an available advanced SNP test.

I'm a little curious as well
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OConnor
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« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2012, 01:35:57 PM »

I ordered it through my Prince Edward Island Project fund.

FTDNA refunded me $ credit for my unnecessary snp testings.
I had them put it in my Project's fund.

I ordered it through email.

I guess it will be refused....rats!
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


Jdean
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« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2012, 01:54:14 PM »

I ordered it through my Prince Edward Island Project fund.

FTDNA refunded me $ credit for my unnecessary snp testings.
I had them put it in my Project's fund.

I ordered it through email.

I guess it will be refused....rats!

Ho hum, never mind it's going to be with us some time soon.
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Jdean
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« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2012, 12:48:42 PM »

DF13 is with us at last

and I've gone and left my wallet in work, blast :)
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2012, 01:50:08 PM »

DF13 is with us at last

and I've gone and left my wallet in work, blast :)

Just put in my order...
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eochaidh
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« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2012, 02:34:14 PM »

I'm DF13+. Well, I'm just guessing since I'm DF23+.
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Mike Forsyth
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« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2012, 04:07:20 PM »

just received my DF49- results today, and ordered DF13...
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2012, 08:48:16 PM »

Here is what our favorite L21+ lab director has to say about the Big Kahuna.

Quote from: Thomas Krahn on Rootsweb
From: Thomas Krahn
Subject: [DNA] DF13 is now available for R-L21
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:21:30 -0500

Attention to all R-L21 persons!

This morning FTDNA made a new SNP available named DF13. I'm pretty sure
that this will bring the understanding of the huge haplogroup R-L21 a
significant step forward. We expect that a large percentage of R-L21
will turn out to be DF13+.
We need one or two representatives for each
branch downstream of L21 to quickly confirm the phylogeny and get DF13
positioned on the tree.

If you are R-L21* then I strongly recommend to test DF13.

There has never been a better chance to loose your * and learn more
about your ancestor's history. The only branch of R-L21 where we expect
a negative DF13 result so far is R-DF63 (however we don't have a DF63+
sample among our ~50 customers that were tested so far).

As soon as we have enough DF13 results we can plot them on a map and may
find patterns in comparison to R-L21 and the other branches downstream
of R-L21. This may help us for getting some more structure in the star
like R-L21 haplogroup.

Please help me to convince the decision makers at FDNA that Y SNP
research is still very important to you. My goal is to get more orders
for DF13 this weekend than for Family Finder (though FF is on sale at
the moment).

Thanks very much for your support!

Thomas Krahn

We now have one L513/DF1 person with an DF13 order pending.  What's our scorecard as far as orders from the other subclades of L21?
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rms2
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« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2012, 08:56:21 PM »

Out of 16 DF49 tests, 14 are negative and two are positive, but those two are both DF23+.

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2012, 09:22:22 PM »

Out of 16 DF49 tests, 14 are negative and two are positive, but those two are both DF23+.

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

That's not that many DF49 tests yet. 

As far as D63, my take-away is that L21* should test for DF13 before DF63.  My understanding of the early research is that if you are DF13+ you will not be DF63+ (you'll be DF63- by default).

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rms2
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« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2012, 09:24:55 PM »

Out of 16 DF49 tests, 14 are negative and two are positive, but those two are both DF23+.

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

That's not that many DF49 tests yet. 

Do we know for sure DF49 is not equivalent to DF23?

As far as D63, my take-away is that L21* should test for DF13 before DF63.  My understanding of the early research is that if you are DF13+ you will not be DF63+ (you'll be DF63- by default).

Probably good advice, especially since it's looking like DF63 is not going to be all that common.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2012, 09:28:06 PM »

Out of 16 DF49 tests, 14 are negative and two are positive, but those two are both DF23+.

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

That's not that many DF49 tests yet.

Do we know for sure DF49 is not equivalent to DF23?

There are only a few things I really know for sure, but per our reports from the "anonymous researcher", whom I suspect we already know and is of great volunteer service to us all, there are DF49+ DF23- people (at least one) in the 1000 HG project.

As Seargent Schultz would say, "I know nothing." BTW, I have a Schulz (no "t") in lineage so that seems to be a family inclination. LOL
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 09:30:28 PM by Mikewww » Logged

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FJames
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2012, 12:00:44 AM »

Ordered DF13 for L144+ Whelan.
I believe Kendall L144+ has ordered aswell.

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GregRM
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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2012, 12:48:50 PM »

Out of 16 DF49 tests, 14 are negative and two are positive, but those two are both DF23+.

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

That's not that many DF49 tests yet.

Do we know for sure DF49 is not equivalent to DF23?

There are only a few things I really know for sure, but per our reports from the "anonymous researcher", whom I suspect we already know and is of great volunteer service to us all, there are DF49+ DF23- people (at least one) in the 1000 HG project.

As Seargent Schultz would say, "I know nothing." BTW, I have a Schulz (no "t") in lineage so that seems to be a family inclination. LOL

There are no DF49+/DF23- people in the 1000 Genomes Project, but the anonymous researcher has found such individuals in testing of his own set of samples, using conventional sequencing, confirming the placement of DF49 upstream of DF23.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2012, 09:10:08 PM »

We are currently 0 for 29 on DF63.

Thomas Krahn mentioned in his email something like 0 for 50 on DF63 to date. So, if that trend continues, then perhaps we might be getting 100% DF13+ results and not learn too much.
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