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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2012, 02:27:22 AM »

Just to remind everyone of Mike's previous variance run for SRY2627..

SRY2627 France______:  Var=0.94 [Mixed 49]  (N=15)  
SRY2627 France______:  Var=1.06 [Linear 36]  (N=15)  

SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.86 [Mixed 49]  (N=9)
SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.77 [Linear 36]  (N=9)  

SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.84 [Mixed 49]  (N=63)  
SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.80 [Linear 36]  (N=63)  

SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.80 [Mixed 49]  (N=17)  
SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.75 [Linear 36]  (N=17)    



Somebody kick-start my failing memory. The variance rates for France were found to be higher in southern France? By southern France I mean what is typically classified as the land of Occitania.

Arch

Not sure, but I don't think Mike gets that specific with it. Just a general read out for France as a whole. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was in this region. Hell, I'm not surprised by any of this stuff any more. One day the variance read outs say one thing and then they're flip flopped the next day.


Yes, let's not go too far with this. I run through the exercise from time to time to see what we will come up with. Since I did the work, I displayed the results and we can decide what to consider or what not to consider.

In the older scenario you point to, there are only 9 people from Germany/Poland, 15 from France and 17 from Iberia.  Those are long haplotypes so I feel good about that but these sample sizes just aren't very large.  

We probably should all be focused on programs like what Charles Moore is doing where he is incenting more SNP testing across U106 people or what Richard Stevens has done with his broadcasts on SNP testing advice.  Both have reorganized major projects to support are better understanding of the R1b Y phylogenetic tree.  We need to recruit more testing.

I've got thousands of L21 people from the British Isles so if we want to divide Ireland by province or Scotland or England by region I think we have something to go on.  I'd like to have 50 people per location, but at least 20 or 30. We can't even start to think about re-sampling to get better representation on most of these subclades. There is probably a ton of "predicted R1b1a2" DF27 people sitting in the Iberian and French projects. How do we get them to test?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 02:28:29 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Arch Y.
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« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2012, 04:22:41 AM »

Just to remind everyone of Mike's previous variance run for SRY2627..

SRY2627 France______:  Var=0.94 [Mixed 49]  (N=15)  
SRY2627 France______:  Var=1.06 [Linear 36]  (N=15)  

SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.86 [Mixed 49]  (N=9)
SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.77 [Linear 36]  (N=9)  

SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.84 [Mixed 49]  (N=63)  
SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.80 [Linear 36]  (N=63)  

SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.80 [Mixed 49]  (N=17)  
SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.75 [Linear 36]  (N=17)    



Somebody kick-start my failing memory. The variance rates for France were found to be higher in southern France? By southern France I mean what is typically classified as the land of Occitania.

Arch

Not sure, but I don't think Mike gets that specific with it. Just a general read out for France as a whole. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was in this region. Hell, I'm not surprised by any of this stuff any more. One day the variance read outs say one thing and then they're flip flopped the next day.


Yes, let's not go too far with this. I run through the exercise from time to time to see what we will come up with. Since I did the work, I displayed the results and we can decide what to consider or what not to consider.

In the older scenario you point to, there are only 9 people from Germany/Poland, 15 from France and 17 from Iberia.  Those are long haplotypes so I feel good about that but these sample sizes just aren't very large.  

We probably should all be focused on programs like what Charles Moore is doing where he is incenting more SNP testing across U106 people or what Richard Stevens has done with his broadcasts on SNP testing advice.  Both have reorganized major projects to support are better understanding of the R1b Y phylogenetic tree.  We need to recruit more testing.

I've got thousands of L21 people from the British Isles so if we want to divide Ireland by province or Scotland or England by region I think we have something to go on.  I'd like to have 50 people per location, but at least 20 or 30. We can't even start to think about re-sampling to get better representation on most of these subclades. There is probably a ton of "predicted R1b1a2" DF27 people sitting in the Iberian and French projects. How do we get them to test?

Costs need to come down drastically and research needs to be more methodical with a more professional approach to the issues rather than it being some circus sideshow where some gypsy guesses your deep ancestry. With illegitimate claims, professors more interested in selling books based on unsubstantiated data I think DNA for ancestry research is in trouble until its proverbial house is cleaned from the charlatans. We would be better off pinning the tail on the donkey right now for determining ancestral origins based on SNPs. I'm also tired of stuffing the DNA pinata with money; let some other fool do it--I need to feed my emaciated piggy bank rather than feed business to companies that have done very little with SNP research but sell some really "out-there" claims to entice unsuspecting lemmings. It's unfortunate that SNP testing has become a business when it comes to ancestral research; it doesn't belong there and should be for research as a non-profit entity.

Arch
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samIsaack
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« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2012, 01:52:08 PM »

Just to remind everyone of Mike's previous variance run for SRY2627..

SRY2627 France______:  Var=0.94 [Mixed 49]  (N=15)  
SRY2627 France______:  Var=1.06 [Linear 36]  (N=15)  

SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.86 [Mixed 49]  (N=9)
SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.77 [Linear 36]  (N=9)  

SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.84 [Mixed 49]  (N=63)  
SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.80 [Linear 36]  (N=63)  

SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.80 [Mixed 49]  (N=17)  
SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.75 [Linear 36]  (N=17)    



Somebody kick-start my failing memory. The variance rates for France were found to be higher in southern France? By southern France I mean what is typically classified as the land of Occitania.

Arch

Not sure, but I don't think Mike gets that specific with it. Just a general read out for France as a whole. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was in this region. Hell, I'm not surprised by any of this stuff any more. One day the variance read outs say one thing and then they're flip flopped the next day.


Yes, let's not go too far with this. I run through the exercise from time to time to see what we will come up with. Since I did the work, I displayed the results and we can decide what to consider or what not to consider.

In the older scenario you point to, there are only 9 people from Germany/Poland, 15 from France and 17 from Iberia.  Those are long haplotypes so I feel good about that but these sample sizes just aren't very large.  

We probably should all be focused on programs like what Charles Moore is doing where he is incenting more SNP testing across U106 people or what Richard Stevens has done with his broadcasts on SNP testing advice.  Both have reorganized major projects to support are better understanding of the R1b Y phylogenetic tree.  We need to recruit more testing.

I've got thousands of L21 people from the British Isles so if we want to divide Ireland by province or Scotland or England by region I think we have something to go on.  I'd like to have 50 people per location, but at least 20 or 30. We can't even start to think about re-sampling to get better representation on most of these subclades. There is probably a ton of "predicted R1b1a2" DF27 people sitting in the Iberian and French projects. How do we get them to test?

At this point in time I think the most helpful thing for the DF27 group is that we have a DF27 group at ftdna. As it stands we are completely and totally scattered with a few hotspots here and there, both in the geographic distribution sense and in the project sense.. You've got to love irony! Until we have a unified project group I think our progress rate is going to be slow going. Unite us and we will better be able to organize and send out the mass emails to which you are referring to, that Rich has had so much success with.

I think its going to be a nightmare getting all of those R1b1a2 people to test.. these are probably the largest poolings of people who ordered the basic 12 marker test and have lost interest and more or less abandonded the quest for more knowledge. As cynical as it sounds, I'd say most of these people are a lost cause. I'll throw in some cliche saying such as "Its always darkest just before the dawn", but I don't think its going to help. Not saying it isn't worth a shot to contact these admins of these projects, but I do remember something of the sort happening not too long ago.. I believe it was Isidro trying to contact the Iberian project, without much success.

 I've not seen or heard much from Didier, even before dna-forums went kaput. He can definitely help us in the French heritage project.. assuming there is a need for someone who speaks French, as I'm sure most of the members of that project are Americans with French ancestry. Though a little sugar-coating couldn't hurt.. eg having an actual Frenchman speaking to this group might garner more interest.

Just a few thoughts..
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
samIsaack
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« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2012, 02:01:42 PM »


[/quote]

Costs need to come down drastically and research needs to be more methodical with a more professional approach to the issues rather than it being some circus sideshow where some gypsy guesses your deep ancestry. With illegitimate claims, professors more interested in selling books based on unsubstantiated data I think DNA for ancestry research is in trouble until its proverbial house is cleaned from the charlatans. We would be better off pinning the tail on the donkey right now for determining ancestral origins based on SNPs. I'm also tired of stuffing the DNA pinata with money; let some other fool do it--I need to feed my emaciated piggy bank rather than feed business to companies that have done very little with SNP research but sell some really "out-there" claims to entice unsuspecting lemmings. It's unfortunate that SNP testing has become a business when it comes to ancestral research; it doesn't belong there and should be for research as a non-profit entity.

Arch
[/quote]

Completely agree!
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
Richard Rocca
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« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2012, 08:50:14 AM »

In case the DF27 guys missed it, this seems to be about DF27* ....

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=10941.msg136536#msg136536
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razyn
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« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2012, 01:28:45 PM »

Yep, good catch.

So, does Britain's DNA, or Helen Osborn Research, or any of those dudes have a DF27 (aka S250) project we can look at -- for the Rest of the Story, so to speak?  Or, is this another one of those "you show me yours," and there the cooperation ends, deals?

The POBI project has a very distinctive autosomal pattern for Anglesey, that was a function of their having collected samples at a big fair, there.  We won't know about their y-DNA component until they get around to analyzing and (eventually) sharing that, but it was a very tightly bounded sample.  I'd be curious to know whether there's an S250 test in their future.
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RickA
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2012, 08:38:04 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.
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rms2
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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2012, 08:46:46 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.

Hey! Congratulations!

It's been a long time coming.
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RickA
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2012, 09:01:38 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.

Hey! Congratulations!

It's been a long time coming.
Thanks Rich. Long time indeed. Over 4 years since S116.  Now for the long string below. It may take a year just to test all of those!
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rms2
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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2012, 09:18:39 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.

Hey! Congratulations!

It's been a long time coming.
Thanks Rich. Long time indeed. Over 4 years since S116.  Now for the long string below. It may take a year just to test all of those!

Have you eliminated any of them already?
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RickA
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« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2012, 09:27:03 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.

Hey! Congratulations!

It's been a long time coming.
Thanks Rich. Long time indeed. Over 4 years since S116.  Now for the long string below. It may take a year just to test all of those!

Have you eliminated any of them already?

Yes, at least I've got the L176.2 branch ruled out.  Will order Z196 next, I reckon.
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rms2
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« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2012, 09:33:22 PM »

Today I received my DF27+, for those scoring at home.  Ysearch is GTCD2.  Earliest known ancestor was in Virginia, so not much help with the big picture.

Hey! Congratulations!

It's been a long time coming.
Thanks Rich. Long time indeed. Over 4 years since S116.  Now for the long string below. It may take a year just to test all of those!

Have you eliminated any of them already?

Yes, at least I've got the L176.2 branch ruled out.  Will order Z196 next, I reckon.

Good luck! I hope you come up positive!
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2012, 12:55:54 AM »

Just to remind everyone of Mike's previous variance run for SRY2627..

SRY2627 France______:  Var=0.94 [Mixed 49]  (N=15)  
SRY2627 France______:  Var=1.06 [Linear 36]  (N=15)  

SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.86 [Mixed 49]  (N=9)
SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.77 [Linear 36]  (N=9)  

SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.84 [Mixed 49]  (N=63)  
SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.80 [Linear 36]  (N=63)  

SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.80 [Mixed 49]  (N=17)  
SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.75 [Linear 36]  (N=17)    



Somebody kick-start my failing memory. The variance rates for France were found to be higher in southern France? By southern France I mean what is typically classified as the land of Occitania.

Arch

Not sure, but I don't think Mike gets that specific with it. Just a general read out for France as a whole. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was in this region. Hell, I'm not surprised by any of this stuff any more. One day the variance read outs say one thing and then they're flip flopped the next day.


Yes, let's not go too far with this. I run through the exercise from time to time to see what we will come up with. Since I did the work, I displayed the results and we can decide what to consider or what not to consider.

In the older scenario you point to, there are only 9 people from Germany/Poland, 15 from France and 17 from Iberia.  Those are long haplotypes so I feel good about that but these sample sizes just aren't very large.  

We probably should all be focused on programs like what Charles Moore is doing where he is incenting more SNP testing across U106 people or what Richard Stevens has done with his broadcasts on SNP testing advice.  Both have reorganized major projects to support are better understanding of the R1b Y phylogenetic tree.  We need to recruit more testing.

I've got thousands of L21 people from the British Isles so if we want to divide Ireland by province or Scotland or England by region I think we have something to go on.  I'd like to have 50 people per location, but at least 20 or 30. We can't even start to think about re-sampling to get better representation on most of these subclades. There is probably a ton of "predicted R1b1a2" DF27 people sitting in the Iberian and French projects. How do we get them to test?

At this point in time I think the most helpful thing for the DF27 group is that we have a DF27 group at ftdna. As it stands we are completely and totally scattered with a few hotspots here and there, both in the geographic distribution sense and in the project sense.. You've got to love irony! Until we have a unified project group I think our progress rate is going to be slow going. Unite us and we will better be able to organize and send out the mass emails to which you are referring to, that Rich has had so much success with.

I think its going to be a nightmare getting all of those R1b1a2 people to test.. these are probably the largest poolings of people who ordered the basic 12 marker test and have lost interest and more or less abandonded the quest for more knowledge. As cynical as it sounds, I'd say most of these people are a lost cause. I'll throw in some cliche saying such as "Its always darkest just before the dawn", but I don't think its going to help. Not saying it isn't worth a shot to contact these admins of these projects, but I do remember something of the sort happening not too long ago.. I believe it was Isidro trying to contact the Iberian project, without much success.

 I've not seen or heard much from Didier, even before dna-forums went kaput. He can definitely help us in the French heritage project.. assuming there is a need for someone who speaks French, as I'm sure most of the members of that project are Americans with French ancestry. Though a little sugar-coating couldn't hurt.. eg having an actual Frenchman speaking to this group might garner more interest.

Just a few thoughts..

We actually have quite a substantial number of persons with French ancestry in the SRY2627 project. Interestingly it seems for now that most of them fall in the DYS490=10 category, although it is subject to change. I'm quite impressed with the amount of SRY2627 found around La Rochelle and Poitiers because its in a zone between the Loire and Garonne River basin. Going back to your concerns about French speaking SRY2627, I would venture to guess we have quite a few in the French speaking areas of Canada and regions of America with a strong French connection (and there's quite a few). It would probably serve us well to learn the language. My gut feeling is certainly pointing SRY2627 with the highest presence in southern France; exactly where I'm not sure, but I would venture to say that its not that far away from Val d'Aran.

Arch

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Curtis Pigman(Pigmon)
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« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2012, 04:40:14 PM »

Jerome72 might be willing to help with this.  I would hate to volunteer him without asking him first though. 

He has helped me interpret some of my French records.  I will send him a message if you guys think it is necessary.
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R1b1a2a1a1b3c3a L2+ Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ (L20-,L196-,and L562-)
ysearch.org ID ZHHCY

Website:  curtisnsissy.tripod.com
samIsaack
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« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2012, 03:15:25 PM »

I didn't really know which thread to place this under, but this DF27 catch all should do the trick!

I was browsing the L165 project and I noticed the Nunes individual we had mentioned on another thread, is indeed L165 positive. His ancestry goes back to 1650 in Spain.

There are also a couple of Germans in the L165 project, both bearing the surname Mayberry.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-l165project/default.aspx?section=yresults
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
samIsaack
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« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2012, 07:48:41 PM »

Just to remind everyone of Mike's previous variance run for SRY2627..

SRY2627 France______:  Var=0.94 [Mixed 49]  (N=15)  
SRY2627 France______:  Var=1.06 [Linear 36]  (N=15)  

SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.86 [Mixed 49]  (N=9)
SRY2627 Germany/Pol_:  Var=0.77 [Linear 36]  (N=9)  

SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.84 [Mixed 49]  (N=63)  
SRY2627 Isles_______:  Var=0.80 [Linear 36]  (N=63)  

SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.80 [Mixed 49]  (N=17)  
SRY2627 Iberia______:  Var=0.75 [Linear 36]  (N=17)    

I'll redo SRY2627, but just keep in mind that other than the British Isles, these are not large sample sizes. That's why I backed down to 37 STR haplotypes on the scenarios I just ran, to keep the counts above 20.

Would it be possible to do L165? I know that its a very small subclade and all, but I think we can all more or less agree that France is the homeland for SRY2627. I'm thinking L165 may be similar to SRY2627's dispersal.. The findings in Spain and Germany are sort of confirming that.

Now that I think about it, it probably wouldn't serve us too well to do a run on L165 at this point.. The two biggest locales for it are Scotland and England and I can't see their variance rates differing a great deal.

Maybe, I don't know.. What do you think?
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
razyn
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« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2012, 08:09:20 PM »

I think I don't agree that France is necessarily the SRY2627 homeland, for one thing.  It could be, or some other place could be.  What's the rush?
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samIsaack
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« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2012, 09:20:32 PM »

I think I don't agree that France is necessarily the SRY2627 homeland, for one thing.  It could be, or some other place could be.  What's the rush?

I didn't know I was rushing! I did say more or less, implying that it isn't for sure.. but in my opinion likely is. I was asking more about L165 than anything.
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

Mtdna: J1c8
razyn
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« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2012, 08:56:35 AM »

Probably this TMRCA news (posted this AM by "spanjool") needs to be linked, so the DF27 interest won't be overlooked:

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=10575.msg138524#msg138524

And as long as I'm linking relevant stuff -- has anybody noticed the recent RootsWeb thread about the alleged "incorrect" price of the DF27 test?  The price ($39) is correct, and it took FTDNA techies several months to figure out a way to charge more for it than for other SNPs (that don't have to be run twice).  But somebody in their customer relations dept. didn't get the word, and agreed with this inattentive customer that the $39 price (that he had agreed to, and paid) was a "typo;" so they are apparently refunding his $10.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-09/1346949389

Just another bump in this DF27 road we are traveling together.
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R1b Z196*
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