R-L21: DF41 another new subclade to watch - it is old!

[rms2]

MacKenzie, kit 71100, has ordered DF41. Now we wait.

[rms2]

Chuck Self, kit 53479, finally got his DF41+ result this morning. Hooray! (He's in my cluster.) I sent him an email and asked him to join the R-DF41 and Subclades Project.

Self's was the only DF41 result in the R-L21 Plus Project last night.

I wonder if there were others elsewhere I don't know about.

[Dubhthach]

None in the Ireland Project that's for sure. I know there are a couple folks there who have it on order. I'm curious as to when Alex Williamson will generate a new tree. Obviously alot of those on the current version (Aug 30th) turned out DF41- but who knows having a tighter cluster might make it easier to find people, as well as help define any overall STR results that are common across DF41+ men.

-Paul
(DF41+)

[rms2]

I'm hoping maybe my 12-marker match, Mr. Samuel, got a DF41+ result, too, but maybe it's too soon.

I keep checking the SNP results for the Price Project, as well, but still no signs of any DF41+ results. There are a handful of Prices in that project who are in my haplotype cluster, and one of them supposedly ordered DF41 around the end of September. He should have a result by now, one would think, but I don't see it yet.

[rms2]

There's a new DF41+ today: Price, kit 49109.

He's in the Price DNA Project. Here's the SNP Results page:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pricesurnamedna/default.aspx?section=ysnp

He's in my haplotype cluster (Mike's 41-1123), and I knew one of those Prices had ordered DF41 (I just didn't know which one).

I'll try to recruit him for both the R-DF41 and Subclades Project and the R-L21 Plus Project.

[Dubhthach]

I see Self has ordered an upgrade from 67-111 STR markers, this will give us at least one 111 STR result in each of the known DF41 clusters.

-Paul
(DF41+)

[rms2]

I see Self has ordered an upgrade from 67-111 STR markers, this will give us at least one 111 STR result in each of the known DF41 clusters.

-Paul
(DF41+)

I saw that. DF41 seems to have sparked some interest among at least a few members of my cluster. There wasn't much activity before it came along.

[rms2]

I mentioned one of my exact 12-marker matches earlier in this thread: Samuel, kit N104746. He just got his DF41+ result. His mdka came from the old Breconshire in  Wales.

He only has 12 markers, so I wasn't sure if he was really in my cluster or not, but I guess the DF41+ result solved that problem.

[rms2]

I mentioned one of my exact 12-marker matches earlier in this thread: Samuel, kit N104746. He just got his DF41+ result. His mdka came from the old Breconshire in  Wales.

He only has 12 markers, so I wasn't sure if he was really in my cluster or not, but I guess the DF41+ result solved that problem.

Samuel has ordered an upgrade to 67 markers.

[rms2]

There's a new DF41+ today: Price, kit 49109.

He's in the Price DNA Project. Here's the SNP Results page:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pricesurnamedna/default.aspx?section=ysnp

He's in my haplotype cluster (Mike's 41-1123), and I knew one of those Prices had ordered DF41 (I just didn't know which one).

I'll try to recruit him for both the R-DF41 and Subclades Project and the R-L21 Plus Project.

Price has finally joined the R-L21 Plus Project and the R-DF41 and Subclades Project.

I realize there is a limited audience for DF41 stuff, but I'll keep posting away in this thread anyway. That is one thing about getting better and better SNP resolution: one's terminal subclade gets progressively smaller and smaller.

It's interesting to me that two members of my haplotype cluster who just recently tested DF41+ both have ancestry in Wales. Now I'm wondering if the cluster will show up in the results of the People of the British Isles Project in Wales or western England (or elsewhere). I would like to find out.

[k.o.gran]

Are there any plausible pending L563 kits currently?

-Kai

[rms2]

Are there any plausible pending L563 kits currently?

-Kai

Between the two projects I don't see any at all, either in Pending Lab results or Pending Shipment to Lab.

I really should order it myself.

[rms2]

I noticed that Thomas Krahn's Draft Tree says that 267 guys have been tested for L563 and 4 are derived. I know of two (Creer and Nuckolls). Who and where are the other two?

[k.o.gran]

I noticed that Thomas Krahn's Draft Tree says that 267 guys have been tested for L563 and 4 are derived. I know of two (Creer and Nuckolls). Who and where are the other two?

Two more Creer's in the Creer Surname Project. Neither has tested to 67 markers if I remember correclty. Thank you for the information.

-Kai

[rms2]

Mayson, kit 140321, got his DF41+ result and joined the R-DF41 and Subclades Project. He doesn't have an mdka listed yet.

He is a 34/37 match of mine that I had emailed back in early October about DF41.

[razyn]

Thomas Krahn apparently added a couple of new SNPs under DF41 to his draft tree, yesterday.  They are on the same "level," and called L1314, L1315.

http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=99813469

There are a couple more new ones under L21.  Look for the yellow stars, on that chart.

[rms2]

Thomas Krahn apparently added a couple of new SNPs under DF41 to his draft tree, yesterday.  They are on the same "level," and called L1314, L1315.

http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=99813469

There are a couple more new ones under L21.  Look for the yellow stars, on that chart.

Are you sure those are under DF41? They look like they are parallel to it to me.

[OConnor]

About the new snp's at the very bottom, is there some way of comparing str's with the people who tested +...??

[razyn]

Are you sure those are under DF41? They look like they are parallel to it to me.

I think you're right.  I find those vertical charts maddeningly hard to read; these newly posted SNPs are directly "under" DF41, but aren't derived under it.  There's a feature whereby one may click on the picture of a tree stump beside an open folder (e.g. on the line that ends with DF41, in blue letters), and get the phylogeny that's just from there down -- and these two newly posted SNPs don't appear on it.

Anyway, it's interesting that some new SNPs are getting posted.  I noticed a few others, in Hg G and I.

[Larry Walker]

Well, we know a bit more about what to expect from GENO 2.0 this morning. In the near term, about the only new DF41+ members we can expect to pick up are those who are L744 positive. See https://dl.dropbox.com/u/92587284/L21-Geno2.0.png .

Over the longer term, it is a crap shoot as to whether any of the 10,000 or so SNPs that are not yet positioned turn out to be subclades of DF41.

Larry

[rms2]

Well, we know a bit more about what to expect from GENO 2.0 this morning. In the near term, about the only new DF41+ members we can expect to pick up are those who are L744 positive. See https://dl.dropbox.com/u/92587284/L21-Geno2.0.png .

Over the longer term, it is a crap shoot as to whether any of the 10,000 or so SNPs that are not yet positioned turn out to be subclades of DF41.

Larry

Hmmm . . .

Maybe we'll get lucky with those 10k unpositioned SNPs. Otherwise, blah.

[Larry Walker]

Well, we know a bit more about what to expect from GENO 2.0 this morning. In the near term, about the only new DF41+ members we can expect to pick up are those who are L744 positive. See https://dl.dropbox.com/u/92587284/L21-Geno2.0.png .

Over the longer term, it is a crap shoot as to whether any of the 10,000 or so SNPs that are not yet positioned turn out to be subclades of DF41.

Larry

Hmmm . . .

Maybe we'll get lucky with those 10k unpositioned SNPs. Otherwise, blah.

It is my understanding that those 10k are a mixed bag including autosomal and mitochondrial.

Let's see.....assuming a random sample: 3,079,843,747 human chromosome base pairs of which 57,741,652 are the Y chromosome = 1.87% Y SNPs times 10,000 unpositioned GENO 2.0 SNPs = only 187 new Y SNPs to be positioned (without even discounting for any that are mitochondrial)?

Of course the selected SNPs for Geno 2.0 are not random so prospects are not quite that gloomy, but I still don't think that I will hold my breath.

With luck, maybe FTDNA will approve my pre-release application for the new WTY and we'll find something there.

[rms2]

It sounds like Geno 2.0 is not much good for us.

I haven't kept up with it all that much, since what I heard about it initially didn't sound all that encouraging. Is it to be applied to the Genographic Project's research samples? If so, it could be beneficial in revealing more about the distribution of L21.

Did the Genographic Project spend much effort on Europe, though? My impression, which could be wrong, of course, is that it focused more on the Third World. If that is the case, then it won't hold all that much interest for me.

[Larry Walker]

Opinions wanted - Possible R-DF41 Project supplement:

Keeper or Cul?
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/diz3ea981wuwnz9/DF41Supp.xlsx

[rms2]

Opinions wanted - Possible R-DF41 Project supplement:

Keeper or Cul?
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/diz3ea981wuwnz9/DF41Supp.xlsx

I like it, especially the tree at the bottom. Thanks!

The tables remind me of McGee's Utility, which I used to mess with a few years ago. Such things seem more useful now that we are getting greater SNP resolution.