R-L21: DF41 another new subclade to watch - it is old!

[rms2]

My dad was a career Navy man, an aviation electronics instructor. I grew up on Navy bases. When I was a young kid, I thought everyone got saluted by Marines.  ;-)

I didn't think we needed the dash, as long as everyone understands that the first character is the branch prefix and all the rest are the SNP (or the first three characters are the prefix, in the case of Romeo One Bravo).

[k.o.gran]

Great news! 181546 Nuckolls is L563+! That means he is also DF41+. And L563 is no longer private.

Finally!

-Kai

[rms2]

Great news! 181546 Nuckolls is L563+! That means he is also DF41+. And L563 is no longer private.

Finally!

-Kai

Excellent! I just saw that result this morning.

[Dubhthach]

Kai,

If you need any help getting L563 on the ISOGG tree give me a shout. I went through the process with DF41. It's should be fairly straightforward as long as we have verification regarding position with regards to L744/L746 (eg. L563+ = L744-/L746- and L744+/L746+ = L563- )

-Paul
(DF41+)

[k.o.gran]

Kai,

If you need any help getting L563 on the ISOGG tree give me a shout. I went through the process with DF41. It's should be fairly straightforward as long as we have verification regarding position with regards to L744/L746 (eg. L563+ = L744-/L746- and L744+/L746+ = L563- )

-Paul
(DF41+)

Let's see...

35212 McCrere is L563+, DF41+, L744-, L746-.
92380 Hall is DF41+, L563-

But I can't find any L744+ or L746+ who have tested for L563. I guess those are the only two missing tests?

-Kai

[df.reynolds]

Kai,

If you need any help getting L563 on the ISOGG tree give me a shout. I went through the process with DF41. It's should be fairly straightforward as long as we have verification regarding position with regards to L744/L746 (eg. L563+ = L744-/L746- and L744+/L746+ = L563- )

-Paul
(DF41+)

Let's see...

35212 McCrere is L563+, DF41+, L744-, L746-.
92380 Hall is DF41+, L563-

But I can't find any L744+ or L746+ who have tested for L563. I guess those are the only two missing tests?

-Kai

See http://daver.info/WTY/R-L21.pdf, WTY results for WStewart, kit 143035, L563- L744+ L746+. You won't find him in any public projects anymore; he appeared to leave them all after multiple disagreements with different people.

--david

[k.o.gran]

Kai,

If you need any help getting L563 on the ISOGG tree give me a shout. I went through the process with DF41. It's should be fairly straightforward as long as we have verification regarding position with regards to L744/L746 (eg. L563+ = L744-/L746- and L744+/L746+ = L563- )

-Paul
(DF41+)

Let's see...

35212 McCrere is L563+, DF41+, L744-, L746-.
92380 Hall is DF41+, L563-

But I can't find any L744+ or L746+ who have tested for L563. I guess those are the only two missing tests?

-Kai

See http://daver.info/WTY/R-L21.pdf, WTY results for WStewart, kit 143035, L563- L744+ L746+. You won't find him in any public projects anymore; he appeared to leave them all after multiple disagreements with different people.

--david

Thanks David!

I forgot about the WTY summary. Seems this SNP is ready for ISOGG. :)

-Kai

[rms2]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

[razyn]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

[rms2]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

Or something similar the other way around, since this third surname shows up again in another individual among Nuckolls' 37-marker matches.

Anyway, I emailed the 67-marker match and offered him an L563 test.

[Mikewww]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

Or something similar the other way around, since this third surname shows up again in another individual among Nuckolls' 37-marker matches.

Anyway, I emailed the 67-marker match and offered him an L563 test.

Robert Casey feels like these guys are good prospects as well. They did have some matches on 1-37 markers but when looking at all 67 the GDs are large and some of the slower ones don't match (with L563 people):

335WV   f157140   Pitts   Virginia, USA
MVMFG   f28321   Pitts   Unknown
C8ZW7   f20227   Pitts   Unknown

What do you think?

[Dubhthach]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

Or something similar the other way around, since this third surname shows up again in another individual among Nuckolls' 37-marker matches.

Anyway, I emailed the 67-marker match and offered him an L563 test.

Robert Casey feels like these guys are good prospects as well. They did have some matches on 1-37 markers but when looking at all 67 the GDs are large and some of the slower ones don't match (with L563 people):

335WV   f157140   Pitts   Virginia, USA
MVMFG   f28321   Pitts   Unknown
C8ZW7   f20227   Pitts   Unknown

What do you think?

At the very least it should be suggested that one of them test for DF41. If they come back DF41+ then try L563.

[Peter M]

Has anybody ever looked at the McKenzies as candidates for L563 ??

[k.o.gran]

Has anybody ever looked at the McKenzies as candidates for L563 ??

Yes. Please see this post:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-L21-Project/message/12203

-Kai

[Mikewww]

Has anybody ever looked at the McKenzies as candidates for L563 ??

I took the suspects that Robert Casey recommended, except the Pittman's, and added them to the big spreadsheet posted at the Yahoo Group links section. This morning's SNP results are also included.

[rms2]

It appears Nuckolls' 65/67 match is closer to Creer than Nuckolls is to Creer. Nuckolls and his match differ at two markers, 576, where Nuckolls has 18 and his match has 17, and 481, where Nuckolls has 20 and his match has 21. Creer has 17 and 21, respectively, at those two markers, so he is a gd of 13, if I am not mistaken, from Nuckolls' match and 15 away from Nuckolls himself.

I hope that made sense. I couldn't find Nuckolls' match in Ysearch, but I was able to ferret him out in his surname project, which is hosted here at World Families.

[rms2]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

Or something similar the other way around, since this third surname shows up again in another individual among Nuckolls' 37-marker matches.

Anyway, I emailed the 67-marker match and offered him an L563 test.

Robert Casey feels like these guys are good prospects as well. They did have some matches on 1-37 markers but when looking at all 67 the GDs are large and some of the slower ones don't match (with L563 people):

335WV   f157140   Pitts   Virginia, USA
MVMFG   f28321   Pitts   Unknown
C8ZW7   f20227   Pitts   Unknown

What do you think?

I took a look at them today. At least one of them, 28321, has tested Z220+ and is in the Z220+ category at the R-P312 and Subclades Project. All of them are in the N-S Cluster with 437=14, 448=18, and H4=10.

[rms2]

Has anybody ever looked at the McKenzies as candidates for L563 ??

Yes. Please see this post:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-L21-Project/message/12203

-Kai

I wrote the admins of the MacKenzie Clan DNA Project and the Mills DNA Project to try to recruit their respective candidates for testing.

I have a little time on my hands today, which is unusual lately. I'm stuck in the house today and tomorrow because of Hurricane Sandy (I'm a teacher, and my school is closed because of the hurricane).

[Mikewww]

Nuckolls has a close 67-marker match with a gentleman with another surname, so it looks like there is at least one more L563+ out there, and a third surname in that category.

Or an adoptee (e.g.) testing to see if he can find his real ancestor, and it was a Nuckolls.

Or something similar the other way around, since this third surname shows up again in another individual among Nuckolls' 37-marker matches.

Anyway, I emailed the 67-marker match and offered him an L563 test.

Robert Casey feels like these guys are good prospects as well. They did have some matches on 1-37 markers but when looking at all 67 the GDs are large and some of the slower ones don't match (with L563 people):

335WV   f157140   Pitts   Virginia, USA
MVMFG   f28321   Pitts   Unknown
C8ZW7   f20227   Pitts   Unknown

What do you think?

I took a look at them today. At least one of them, 28321, has tested Z220+ and is in the Z220+ category at the R-P312 and Subclades Project. All of them are in the N-S Cluster with 437=14, 448=18, and H4=10.

Thanks, their GD's seemed wide with the L563 people, but Robert's methodology apparently picked up there was enough of a STR signature match for him to include on the suspect list.  I like to use the word suspect better than "predict" for exactly this reason.

[rms2]

I appreciate any and all suggestions. We haven't seen much action lately, other than Nuckolls' L563+ result.

Getting these folks to respond, even when we offer them free tests, is like pulling teeth. That's another problem.

[Dubhthach]

I've created a seperated L563 subgrouping in the STR results in the DF41+ project. Obviously we should get Nuckolls to join to at least have two members in that grouping.

Given the numbering I'm assuming L563 has been known for at least 18 months. In which case I hope it will be in GEN 2.0 list of SNP's.

[rms2]

I invited Nuckolls to join as soon as I saw his L563+ result. I just sent him a reminder with detailed instructions on how to join.

I also just heard from an exact 12-marker match of mine (I know: just 12 markers) who has ordered the DF41 test. His surname is Samuel and his mdka came from somewhere in Wales (he probably knows where, but I do not). He ordered DF41 sometime in early October, so his result ought to pop up any time now.

[Dubhthach]

I invited Nuckolls to join as soon as I saw his L563+ result. I just sent him a reminder with detailed instructions on how to join.

I also just heard from an exact 12-marker match of mine (I know: just 12 markers) who has ordered the DF41 test. His surname is Samuel and his mdka came from somewhere in Wales (he probably knows where, but I do not). He ordered DF41 sometime in early October, so his result ought to pop up any time now.

Should be intersting, obviously he's just a 12marker, but still with a connection into Wales could be a good pointer.

-Paul

[rms2]

I invited Nuckolls to join as soon as I saw his L563+ result. I just sent him a reminder with detailed instructions on how to join.

I also just heard from an exact 12-marker match of mine (I know: just 12 markers) who has ordered the DF41 test. His surname is Samuel and his mdka came from somewhere in Wales (he probably knows where, but I do not). He ordered DF41 sometime in early October, so his result ought to pop up any time now.

Should be intersting, obviously he's just a 12marker, but still with a connection into Wales could be a good pointer.

-Paul

Yeah, he'll either be DF41+ or, if he's not, he's probably L48+. That seems to be the way with my matches who have less than 67 markers: they're either genuinely in my cluster or they're some kind of U106 (it's the 390=23 and the 447=24 that causes the trouble).

[rms2]

I got a reply from the admin of the MacKenzie Clan DNA Project, with info on how to contact those two prospects from his project. I emailed one of them (kit 71100). If he doesn't respond, I'll contact the other one.