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Author Topic: Where did Germanic languages expand from? How about U106?  (Read 9332 times)
Richard Rocca
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« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2012, 03:18:42 PM »

This type of data does require better a better explanation than just 'contacts'. There are many examples. If you look at figure 18, the warrior with the La Tene type shield, it is probably very similar to the sheilds found at Hjortspring,



http://www.hjortspring.dk/wold/shields.htm

Regarding the stag helmet however, the situation is made more complicated by the fact that it formed part of a religious ceromony/rite for thousands of years, as evidenced by the Star Carr mask,



A similar Celtic shield from northern Italy (Golaseccan):

http://www.celticworld.it/immagini/wiki/fg_9_68.jpg
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« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2012, 09:18:53 AM »

Quote from: Mikewww link=topic=10503.msg129419#msg129419
So the supposition is that U106 may have met folks (such as I1, R1a1, P312*) from Scandinavia just south of the Jutland to form the Jastorf culture.

Jastorf beings around 700 BC?  U106 is about 4000 years old?  So the corollary of your supposition is that U106 was contained east of the Oder River for its first 1300 years?  And that lines up with variance figures?

Remember, this is all just a speculative inquiry but it is based on STR diversity being higher in Poland than Germany and being similar in both England and Scandinavia.   Scandinavian U106 does not look old.

Yes, there is a corollary that U106 was not in the Jutland or at the neck of the Jutland or points west or north, to any significant degree, prior to the Jastorf expansion.  It could have been either east or south.  I don't know which. That's not too hard to imagine, if you think the R-L11 family (L11*, U106, P312) originated in SE Europe, the Steppes or SW Asia.

Good news for Maliclavelli. This is from a U106 project admin from the U106 forum today.
Quote from: Michael Maddi
It was pointed out to me by the co-administrator of the Italy Project that the members of the North Italy Project who've tested U106+ seem to be mostly L48- (U106* by present deep clade nomenclature). Looking at the STR results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=yresults - and the SNP results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=ysnp - there are 8 U106+ men in the project. Of these, only one is L48+; the other 7 are L48-.

This is unusual, since about 40-50% of U106+ men are also L48+. That says something about the origin in northern Europe of the North Italian U106 lines and about the migrations that brought them there, although I'm not sure what it's saying. (It's fairly well-established that R1b-U106 and subclades are mainly a northern European haplogroup.) In contrast, all 3 U106+ lines from Sicily (including me) that I know about are also L48+.

It would be very worthwhile for you to test Z18 and Z381 from the Advanced Orders menu to establish if you belong in one of those subclades. Those two SNPs are not yet included in the deep clade test.

There is some genetic evidence that U106 could have been south of Jastorf area prior to its formation.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 09:19:24 AM by Mikewww » Logged

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Richard Rocca
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« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2012, 09:37:24 AM »

Quote from: Mikewww link=topic=10503.msg129419#msg129419
So the supposition is that U106 may have met folks (such as I1, R1a1, P312*) from Scandinavia just south of the Jutland to form the Jastorf culture.

Jastorf beings around 700 BC?  U106 is about 4000 years old?  So the corollary of your supposition is that U106 was contained east of the Oder River for its first 1300 years?  And that lines up with variance figures?

Remember, this is all just a speculative inquiry but it is based on STR diversity being higher in Poland than Germany and being similar in both England and Scandinavia.   Scandinavian U106 does not look old.

Yes, there is a corollary that U106 was not in the Jutland or at the neck of the Jutland or points west or north, to any significant degree, prior to the Jastorf expansion.  It could have been either east or south.  I don't know which. That's not too hard to imagine, if you think the R-L11 family (L11*, U106, P312) originated in SE Europe, the Steppes or SW Asia.

Good news for Maliclavelli. This is from a U106 project admin from the U106 forum today.
Quote from: Michael Maddi
It was pointed out to me by the co-administrator of the Italy Project that the members of the North Italy Project who've tested U106+ seem to be mostly L48- (U106* by present deep clade nomenclature). Looking at the STR results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=yresults - and the SNP results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=ysnp - there are 8 U106+ men in the project. Of these, only one is L48+; the other 7 are L48-.

This is unusual, since about 40-50% of U106+ men are also L48+. That says something about the origin in northern Europe of the North Italian U106 lines and about the migrations that brought them there, although I'm not sure what it's saying. (It's fairly well-established that R1b-U106 and subclades are mainly a northern European haplogroup.) In contrast, all 3 U106+ lines from Sicily (including me) that I know about are also L48+.

It would be very worthwhile for you to test Z18 and Z381 from the Advanced Orders menu to establish if you belong in one of those subclades. Those two SNPs are not yet included in the deep clade test.

There is some genetic evidence that U106 could have been south of Jastorf area prior to its formation.

LOL - yes, the co-admin of the Italy project that pointed that out to Mike M. was me. To further the comment, it looks like DYS390=24 is also modal for U106 in all of southern Europe (Spain, Italy and the Balkans) and a large part of France.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2012, 10:02:52 AM »

“Good news for Maliclavelli”.

I wrote many letters to MMaddi from when I wrote on Rootsweb, before my banishment at the end of 2007, and I said that also about R-U106, thought by everybody of German origin, we couldn’t be sure, because we couldn’t exclude an origin in the Italian Refugium also of this haplogroup. And this was based on my knowledge of Francesco Cesaroni, on the knowledge of the origin of his family and of his surname, then other thing rather than my “nationalism”. Also in this case only scientific analyses. Of course I am not sure and cannot exclude that this haplogroup has reached Italy with the Germans, but I invited not to take anything for granted. I have analysed also the case of the Brazilian of Italian descent Zeni, he R-U106 too.


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« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2012, 01:37:05 PM »

we couldn’t be sure, because we couldn’t exclude an origin in the Italian Refugium also of this haplogroup.

We could, if we have zero evidence that this haplogroup is as old as the Ice Age, from which the undoubtedly lovely and culturally important Italian peninsula was supposedly a refuge for the yet-to-be born R1b haplogroup.

The Romans, bless their hearts, imported slaves, soldiers, tutors, diplomatic hostages, seamen and merchants (at least) from places far to the east -- in which R1b was probably found long before it was found in that peninsula -- according to almost every academic source in print, or nationalistic fantasy found online, except this one.  Which I continue to doubt, as unsupported, unless and until something supports it.  Several closely related P312* people in present-day Tuscany do not constitute support for a Peopling of Everywhere theory that is otherwise wildly hypothetical, and out of step with the mainstream.

The Jastorf culture was about contemporary with Romulus and Remus, it wasn't at the dawn of the Bronze Age.  I don't have a problem with assigning high genetic status to Jastorf people -- nor to the aforementioned Roman imports, the Sea People, or other persons resident in present Italy -- after the haplogroup in question existed.  Those P312* Tuscans, or U106* guys, probably do represent remnants of early, successful, and remarkably resilient lineages.  Maybe even from 5,000 years ago -- wherever they may have lived, way back then.
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« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2012, 01:46:22 PM »

we couldn’t be sure, because we couldn’t exclude an origin in the Italian Refugium also of this haplogroup.

We could, if we have zero evidence that this haplogroup is as old as the Ice Age, from which the undoubtedly lovely and culturally important Italian peninsula was supposedly a refuge for the yet-to-be born R1b haplogroup.

The Romans, bless their hearts, imported slaves, soldiers, tutors, diplomatic hostages, seamen and merchants (at least) from places far to the east -- in which R1b was probably found long before it was found in that peninsula -- according to almost every academic source in print, or nationalistic fantasy found online, except this one.  Which I continue to doubt, as unsupported, unless and until something supports it.  Several closely related P312* people in present-day Tuscany do not constitute support for a Peopling of Everywhere theory that is otherwise wildly hypothetical, and out of step with the mainstream.

The Jastorf culture was about contemporary with Romulus and Remus, it wasn't at the dawn of the Bronze Age.  I don't have a problem with assigning high genetic status to Jastorf people -- nor to the aforementioned Roman imports, the Sea People, or other persons resident in present Italy -- after the haplogroup in question existed.  Those P312* Tuscans, or U106* guys, probably do represent remnants of early, successful, and remarkably resilient lineages.  Maybe even from 5,000 years ago -- wherever they may have lived, way back then.

I would caution that those currently identified as P312* or U106* don't necessarily represent older lineages of those subclades. All the * indicates is that their defining SNP hasn't been discovered yet. When it is discovered, it could well be younger than the other currently known subclades below P312 and U106. If those who believe SNPs occur every generation or two are correct, then true P312* and U106* doesn't exist in the present day.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2012, 02:20:18 PM »

,
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Who knows me knows that I don’t like who hides himself. I am seeing only that your plant secerns poison. What do I know of you? Only that you are R-Z196*. You may be everything and nothing. Like Farinata asked Dante, I say: “Chi fur li maggior tui?”. Tell me, and you’ll get the answer you merit.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 07:21:41 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

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razyn
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« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2012, 02:25:20 PM »

I would caution that those currently identified as P312* or U106* don't necessarily represent older lineages of those subclades.

I was trying to give Gioiello the benefit of the doubt.  Guess it's just my irenic nature.  Anyway, if they represent old lineages, that's about how old -- not the Ice Age -- and not necessarily born where they are now found, in Tuscany.
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« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2012, 02:25:54 PM »

Quote from: Mikewww link=topic=10503.msg129419#msg129419
So the supposition is that U106 may have met folks (such as I1, R1a1, P312*) from Scandinavia just south of the Jutland to form the Jastorf culture.

Jastorf beings around 700 BC?  U106 is about 4000 years old?  So the corollary of your supposition is that U106 was contained east of the Oder River for its first 1300 years?  And that lines up with variance figures?

Remember, this is all just a speculative inquiry but it is based on STR diversity being higher in Poland than Germany and being similar in both England and Scandinavia.   Scandinavian U106 does not look old.

Yes, there is a corollary that U106 was not in the Jutland or at the neck of the Jutland or points west or north, to any significant degree, prior to the Jastorf expansion.  It could have been either east or south.  I don't know which. That's not too hard to imagine, if you think the R-L11 family (L11*, U106, P312) originated in SE Europe, the Steppes or SW Asia.

Good news for Maliclavelli. This is from a U106 project admin from the U106 forum today.
Quote from: Michael Maddi
It was pointed out to me by the co-administrator of the Italy Project that the members of the North Italy Project who've tested U106+ seem to be mostly L48- (U106* by present deep clade nomenclature). Looking at the STR results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=yresults - and the SNP results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=ysnp - there are 8 U106+ men in the project. Of these, only one is L48+; the other 7 are L48-.

This is unusual, since about 40-50% of U106+ men are also L48+. That says something about the origin in northern Europe of the North Italian U106 lines and about the migrations that brought them there, although I'm not sure what it's saying. (It's fairly well-established that R1b-U106 and subclades are mainly a northern European haplogroup.) In contrast, all 3 U106+ lines from Sicily (including me) that I know about are also L48+.

It would be very worthwhile for you to test Z18 and Z381 from the Advanced Orders menu to establish if you belong in one of those subclades. Those two SNPs are not yet included in the deep clade test.

There is some genetic evidence that U106 could have been south of Jastorf area prior to its formation.

I have pointed out a couple of times that the northern Italian U-106 predominantly has DYS390=24. No one beside Rich R. and myself seems to think it has any significance. According to the U106 project administrators, 390=24 is the oriiginal value for U106. 390=23 apparently only developed in the later Z301 subclade, which includes L48, the most common U106 subclade. It could be an indication of an early arrival of U106(xZ301) in northern Italy.
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Jdean
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« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2012, 04:08:02 PM »

Quote from: Mikewww link=topic=10503.msg129419#msg129419
So the supposition is that U106 may have met folks (such as I1, R1a1, P312*) from Scandinavia just south of the Jutland to form the Jastorf culture.

Jastorf beings around 700 BC?  U106 is about 4000 years old?  So the corollary of your supposition is that U106 was contained east of the Oder River for its first 1300 years?  And that lines up with variance figures?

Remember, this is all just a speculative inquiry but it is based on STR diversity being higher in Poland than Germany and being similar in both England and Scandinavia.   Scandinavian U106 does not look old.

Yes, there is a corollary that U106 was not in the Jutland or at the neck of the Jutland or points west or north, to any significant degree, prior to the Jastorf expansion.  It could have been either east or south.  I don't know which. That's not too hard to imagine, if you think the R-L11 family (L11*, U106, P312) originated in SE Europe, the Steppes or SW Asia.

Good news for Maliclavelli. This is from a U106 project admin from the U106 forum today.
Quote from: Michael Maddi
It was pointed out to me by the co-administrator of the Italy Project that the members of the North Italy Project who've tested U106+ seem to be mostly L48- (U106* by present deep clade nomenclature). Looking at the STR results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=yresults - and the SNP results table - at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly/default.aspx?section=ysnp - there are 8 U106+ men in the project. Of these, only one is L48+; the other 7 are L48-.

This is unusual, since about 40-50% of U106+ men are also L48+. That says something about the origin in northern Europe of the North Italian U106 lines and about the migrations that brought them there, although I'm not sure what it's saying. (It's fairly well-established that R1b-U106 and subclades are mainly a northern European haplogroup.) In contrast, all 3 U106+ lines from Sicily (including me) that I know about are also L48+.

It would be very worthwhile for you to test Z18 and Z381 from the Advanced Orders menu to establish if you belong in one of those subclades. Those two SNPs are not yet included in the deep clade test.

There is some genetic evidence that U106 could have been south of Jastorf area prior to its formation.

I have pointed out a couple of times that the northern Italian U-106 predominantly has DYS390=24. No one beside Rich R. and myself seems to think it has any significance. According to the U106 project administrators, 390=24 is the oriiginal value for U106. 390=23 apparently only developed in the later Z301 subclade, which includes L48, the most common U106 subclade. It could be an indication of an early arrival of U106(xZ301) in northern Italy.

390=24 is modal for Z18 as well of course. As yet we haven’t found an Italian Z18 and it would be interesting if one or two of these people tested for it, but I think they should probably testing Z381 first.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 07:53:06 PM by Jdean » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2012, 04:56:18 PM »

....
I have pointed out a couple of times that the northern Italian U-106 predominantly has DYS390=24. No one beside Rich R. and myself seems to think it has any significance. According to the U106 project administrators, 390=24 is the oriiginal value for U106. 390=23 apparently only developed in the later Z301 subclade, which includes L48, the most common U106 subclade. It could be an indication of an early arrival of U106(xZ301) in northern Italy.
I'm with you on that. I was not aware of 390=24 in Italy but Maddi has said for years that 390=24 is modal in Poland and I've often repeated that.

However, I will say, one STR is not enough to bet too much on.  Now, if 390=24 AND 492=12 were modal for U106 somewhere.. that would be something.
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« Reply #86 on: April 20, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on the Lombards for most Northern Italian U106. There might be a stray prehistoric U106 line in N. Italy, but how would that alter the big picture?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 07:53:29 PM by rms2 » Logged

Jdean
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« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2012, 07:57:51 PM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

Far to common to get excited about for sure but 390=23 is much more common below Z381, in fact I think it's pretty much L48 and down
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 07:58:33 PM by Jdean » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2012, 08:05:54 PM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

Far to common to get excited about for sure but 390=23 is much more common below Z381, in fact I think it's pretty much L48 and down

True, but 390=24 is probably the modal value for all of L11, and 23 is only a one-step mutation. Heck, I have that, and I am L21+.

I need to leave U106 alone, though. A number of folks (not you, Jdean) have far too much emotion invested in it, and it isn't all that important to me.
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« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2012, 01:17:19 AM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

Far to common to get excited about for sure but 390=23 is much more common below Z381, in fact I think it's pretty much L48 and down

True, but 390=24 is probably the modal value for all of L11, and 23 is only a one-step mutation. Heck, I have that, and I am L21+....
Agreed, that's why the pattern of at least a couple of markers is more important. 
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« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2012, 04:16:15 AM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

Far to common to get excited about for sure but 390=23 is much more common below Z381, in fact I think it's pretty much L48 and down

True, but 390=24 is probably the modal value for all of L11, and 23 is only a one-step mutation. Heck, I have that, and I am L21+....
Agreed, that's why the pattern of at least a couple of markers is more important.  

Yep, though you can use single values to make broad and very rough predictions sometimes. I wouldn't really on DYS390 too much though as it's a little fast.

rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 04:18:17 AM by Jdean » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2012, 06:05:02 AM »

rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)
I assume he has four great-grandfathers.  How many do you have?  2?
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« Reply #92 on: April 21, 2012, 06:18:19 AM »

I really don't want to get involved in another U106 argument, but I think you all should notice that 390=24 isn't exactly all that rare among U106ers.

Far to common to get excited about for sure but 390=23 is much more common below Z381, in fact I think it's pretty much L48 and down

True, but 390=24 is probably the modal value for all of L11, and 23 is only a one-step mutation. Heck, I have that, and I am L21+....
Agreed, that's why the pattern of at least a couple of markers is more important.  

Yep, though you can use single values to make broad and very rough predictions sometimes. I wouldn't really on DYS390 too much though as it's a little fast.

rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.
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« Reply #93 on: April 21, 2012, 06:31:55 AM »

rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)
I assume he has four great-grandfathers.  How many do you have?  2?


I know their’s a joke here but I can't quite figure it out ?
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« Reply #94 on: April 21, 2012, 06:41:39 AM »


rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.

Yes 492=13, but  390=25 along with 392=14 which is convergence.

He was a fairly solid candidate for Z18 and took the test at our suggestion , he's kit no 132745 in the project

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-z18/default.aspx?section=yresults
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« Reply #95 on: April 21, 2012, 06:50:32 AM »


rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.

Yes 492=13, but  390=25 along with 392=14 which is convergence.

He was a fairly solid candidate for Z18 and took the test at our suggestion , he's kit no 132745 in the project

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-z18/default.aspx?section=yresults


Too bad.

I guess FTDNA is giving Niall badges based on the 12-marker haplotype?

BTW, the guy I mentioned above who turned out to be M222+ in the end is now one of my Family Finder matches. Small world.

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« Reply #96 on: April 21, 2012, 07:07:04 AM »


rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches  :) (I do have a couple from the UK now, at last)

Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.

Yes 492=13, but  390=25 along with 392=14 which is convergence.

He was a fairly solid candidate for Z18 and took the test at our suggestion , he's kit no 132745 in the project

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-z18/default.aspx?section=yresults


Too bad.

I guess FTDNA is giving Niall badges based on the 12-marker haplotype?

BTW, the guy I mentioned above who turned out to be M222+ in the end is now one of my Family Finder matches. Small world.



It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches. I do have a couple from the UK, at last, so maybe I am a Brit after all :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 07:09:27 AM by Jdean » Logged

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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #97 on: April 21, 2012, 07:16:47 AM »


rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches  :) (I do have a couple from the UK now, at last)

Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.

Yes 492=13, but  390=25 along with 392=14 which is convergence.

He was a fairly solid candidate for Z18 and took the test at our suggestion , he's kit no 132745 in the project

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-z18/default.aspx?section=yresults


Too bad.

I guess FTDNA is giving Niall badges based on the 12-marker haplotype?

BTW, the guy I mentioned above who turned out to be M222+ in the end is now one of my Family Finder matches. Small world.



It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches. I do have a couple from the UK, at last, so maybe I am a Brit after all :)

I have at least two Family Finder matches who are British citizens. My M222+ Family Finder match is an Irishman (at least by descent; I don't recall whether or not he is an American).

Back on the Germanic/U106 thing, I notice the Z18 Project has grown quite a bit and now takes in a lot of continentals.

I also noticed kit 130720 lists Peter Sandifer as mdka. It says he died in Mississippi. I wonder if that would be Pike County, Mississippi. My family lived there after the Civil War, in and near Magnolia. The Sandifers were early pioneers in Pike County. 
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« Reply #98 on: April 21, 2012, 01:31:34 PM »


rather amusingly (and not terribly relevant to this discussion) one of the members of the Z18 project has a Niall's badge :)


It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches  :) (I do have a couple from the UK now, at last)

Does he have 492=13?

If not, I would write FTDNA and ask them to recheck him. His result wouldn't be the first lab error. We've had "U106+" guys turn out to be L21+ guys and vice versa before.

I had a guy in the R-P312 etc. Project with a Niall badge get an L21- M222- result at first. I thought that was odd, so I pestered FTDNA to recheck him. Lo and behold, he turned out to be R-M222.

Yes 492=13, but  390=25 along with 392=14 which is convergence.

He was a fairly solid candidate for Z18 and took the test at our suggestion , he's kit no 132745 in the project

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r-z18/default.aspx?section=yresults


Too bad.

I guess FTDNA is giving Niall badges based on the 12-marker haplotype?

BTW, the guy I mentioned above who turned out to be M222+ in the end is now one of my Family Finder matches. Small world.



It is indeed, all my matches are Americans, bit like most of my STR matches. I do have a couple from the UK, at last, so maybe I am a Brit after all :)

I have at least two Family Finder matches who are British citizens. My M222+ Family Finder match is an Irishman (at least by descent; I don't recall whether or not he is an American).

Back on the Germanic/U106 thing, I notice the Z18 Project has grown quite a bit and now takes in a lot of continentals.

I also noticed kit 130720 lists Peter Sandifer as mdka. It says he died in Mississippi. I wonder if that would be Pike County, Mississippi. My family lived there after the Civil War, in and near Magnolia. The Sandifers were early pioneers in Pike County. 

I'm pretty sure all my matches are Americans. Really I need to put more time into that but finishing off the family tree on my mothers side is proving a little time consuming. My plan was to get 6 generations down on all lines but I'm getting into pre census days and a lot of very common Welsh names, so far 3 Davies lines, 3 Morgans, 2 Thomas and 2 Parry, no point mentioning all the singletons but Jones crops up of course :)

When I email the Sandifers next I'll try and remember to ask about Pike County. I expect it is the same family it's not a particularly common name, least ways not this side of the pond.
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« Reply #99 on: April 21, 2012, 02:13:33 PM »

I need to leave U106 alone, though. A number of folks (not you, Jdean) have far too much emotion invested in it, and it isn't all that important to me.

I think that is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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