World Families Forums - Goat’s wool: the Alan J1b

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 22, 2014, 03:13:22 AM
Home Help Search Login Register

+  World Families Forums
|-+  General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse.
| |-+  Y-Haplogroups
| | |-+  Goat’s wool: the Alan J1b
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Goat’s wool: the Alan J1b  (Read 1698 times)
Maliclavelli
Guru
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2151


« on: November 20, 2011, 10:13:14 AM »

In Italian we could say that it is a question of “alana caprina”: “lana caprina” (goat’s wool)= futile question. “Alana” feminine of Alanus.

Our friend Ricardo Costa de Oliveira is from many time, practically from when I knew him on the Brazilian forum “sc_gen”, inquiring and propagandising his J1b haplogroup, not Jewish, not Arabian, but Alan. Now he gives us many haplotypes, saying that they come back to the Alan invasion of the Roman Empire: a so little people for a so great land! These are the haplotypes:

393 390 19 391 385 426 388 439 389i 392 389ii 458 459 455 454 447 437 448
449 464abcd 460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAIIab 456 442 438

1) 13 22 15 10 12 18 11 16 11 13 11 29 17 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 26 14 15 15 16 11 9 21 22 15 12 10
2) 13 22 15 10 12 16 11 16 11 13 11 29 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 15 16 11 9 21 22 15 13 10
3) 13 22 15 10 12 20 11 16 11 13 11 29 17 6 8 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 16 16 10 9 21 22 15 13 10
4) 13 22 16 10 12 19 11 16 11 13 11 29 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 17 17 10 9 21 22 15 11 10
4) 13 22 15 11 12 20 11 16 11 13 11 30 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 16 18 10 9 21 22 15 12 10
5) 13 22 15 10 12 19 11 16 11 13 11 29 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 24 14 15 16 17 10 9 21 22 15 12 10
6) 13 22 15 10 12 19 11 16 11 13 11 30 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 17 17 10 9 21 22 16 12 10
7) 13 22 15 10 12 19 11 16 11 13 11 29 18 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 16 17 10 9 21 22 15 12 10
8) 13 23 15 10 12 18 11 16 11 14 11 30 17 8 9 11 11 26 14 20 27 15 15 16 16 11 9 21 22 15 12 10
9) 13 22 15 10 11 16 11 16 11 13 11 29 18 8 9 11 11 26 14 20 27 15 15 16 16 10 9 21 22 17 12 10
10)13 22 15 10 12 18 11 15 12 13 11 29 19 8 9 11 11 25 14 20 25 14 15 16 17 10 9 21 21 15 12 10
11)13 22 15 10 11 17 11 15 12 13 11 29

I have counted 56 mutations out of 332 markers. Even considering these a unique haplotype (and it isn’t so) we have:
(454x56) : 332= 76,5…x32(the years of a generation)=2450YBP for the MRCA.

Too old for being the Alan invader, too young for being the MRCA of the Alans.

This way of calculation, which doesn’t take in consideration my “mutations around the modal”, my “convergence to the modal as time passes” etc., even though in a short period isn’t to be multiplied for 2.5, certainly cannot be considered exact, then the MRCA is certainly older, and he could be Alan, Circassian, Troglodyte, or of every other people existed upon this Earth.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 10:23:02 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Ricardão
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 01:08:02 PM »

Dear Maliclavelli

Thanks for your attention.

Some points:

1) J1b M365+ was never ever (until today) found in the Mediterranean big area. No J1b was found in Italy, North Africa neither in Lebanon nor in any of Zallua's presumed vast extended Phoenician haplotypes. The J1b type is extreme rare and distinctive in the J haplogroup with the solid initial modal of 13-22-15 that in the J1 haplogroup is reserved only to J1b's. The YCA21/22 and GATA H4=9  alltogether make a quite rare modal haplotype found only with the J1b's.

2) J1b is a basal branch with a completely different history and a completely different spatial distribution in relation to L136+ P58+ J1c and the Proto-Semitic L147+ good representatives of Jews and Arabs in the Semi-Arid regions of the Middle East and the Mediterranean areas. J1b is also completely different in relation to the new SNP Z1834 vinculated with J1 388+13. J1b is different and had a different history in a different territory and historical habitat. Curiously no J1b was found in any Armenian Project or article (until today). If you research the J1 phylogenetic tree you will realize and understand that J1b is a completely different basal branch with a distinctive history.

3) J1b is not a Neolithic haplogroup in Western Europe and the TMRCA is a historical funcion of the Fall of the Roman Empire. The different J1b clusters in Northern Iran, Western Iberia, England, Belgium are connected around two thousand years ago, a bit more or less depending on the estimative but that's the unique time of the Alanic invasion of Western Europe. I am not saying that all Alans were J1b but my working hypotheisis is saying that J1b was indeed one of the haplogroups in the Iranic tribal Confederation (Alans) that invaded Western Europe and arrived in places like Portugal.

4) Fererre is Ferreira, a Portuguese migrant from Lisbon to Reunion.

5) The European imaginary of Kings and Knights fighting on horseback and lost swords can be found in the English West Country and in Portugal and you can observe that only the regions with a Warrior Political Elite like the Portuguese Empire could create and preserve the ancient legacy brought from the East. That's the idea of a Medieval Crusader State like Portugal and afterwards the Brazilian expansive branch, just like the Eastern Monotheist Religions brought from the East to the West. “Ex Oriente Lux”

Yours Truthfully

A Descendant of the Y DNA Ancient Territorial Brazilian Nobility.
Logged
LanceOllie
New Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 02:54:28 AM »

This is such a detailed information.Because of this i came to lot of unknown and rare  things.
Logged

intrestedinhistory
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 186


« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 10:31:14 PM »

Dear Maliclavelli

Thanks for your attention.

Some points:

1) J1b M365+ was never ever (until today) found in the Mediterranean big area. No J1b was found in Italy, North Africa neither in Lebanon nor in any of Zallua's presumed vast extended Phoenician haplotypes. The J1b type is extreme rare and distinctive in the J haplogroup with the solid initial modal of 13-22-15 that in the J1 haplogroup is reserved only to J1b's. The YCA21/22 and GATA H4=9  alltogether make a quite rare modal haplotype found only with the J1b's.

2) J1b is a basal branch with a completely different history and a completely different spatial distribution in relation to L136+ P58+ J1c and the Proto-Semitic L147+ good representatives of Jews and Arabs in the Semi-Arid regions of the Middle East and the Mediterranean areas. J1b is also completely different in relation to the new SNP Z1834 vinculated with J1 388+13. J1b is different and had a different history in a different territory and historical habitat. Curiously no J1b was found in any Armenian Project or article (until today). If you research the J1 phylogenetic tree you will realize and understand that J1b is a completely different basal branch with a distinctive history.

3) J1b is not a Neolithic haplogroup in Western Europe and the TMRCA is a historical funcion of the Fall of the Roman Empire. The different J1b clusters in Northern Iran, Western Iberia, England, Belgium are connected around two thousand years ago, a bit more or less depending on the estimative but that's the unique time of the Alanic invasion of Western Europe. I am not saying that all Alans were J1b but my working hypotheisis is saying that J1b was indeed one of the haplogroups in the Iranic tribal Confederation (Alans) that invaded Western Europe and arrived in places like Portugal.

4) Fererre is Ferreira, a Portuguese migrant from Lisbon to Reunion.

5) The European imaginary of Kings and Knights fighting on horseback and lost swords can be found in the English West Country and in Portugal and you can observe that only the regions with a Warrior Political Elite like the Portuguese Empire could create and preserve the ancient legacy brought from the East. That's the idea of a Medieval Crusader State like Portugal and afterwards the Brazilian expansive branch, just like the Eastern Monotheist Religions brought from the East to the West. “Ex Oriente Lux”

Yours Truthfully

A Descendant of the Y DNA Ancient Territorial Brazilian Nobility.

Good stuff. So is J1b very ancient in North Iran? I thought Alans didnt come from Iran but the Pontic Caspian steepe?
Logged
Ricardão
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 05:51:09 PM »

Hello Interested

You can observe here a map of the presence of the Alans in Eastern Anatolia, North Iran and the big migration to Western Iberia. You can also observe a rare J1b type 16/17 YHRD match of two haplotypes: a Gilaki from the Southern Caspian Sea and a Brazilian from the Continental heartland of South America in Mato Grosso:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1OX8idss6EE/Thm2gPihDAI/AAAAAAAAAZs/RG6Ao8pX1k0/s1600/J1b%2BMato%2BGrosso-Gilaki.jpg

Logged
Ricardão
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 05:53:34 PM »

My J1b blog:

http://j1bm365.blogspot.com.br/
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


SEO light theme by © Mustang forums. Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC

Page created in 0.073 seconds with 18 queries.