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Mark Jost
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« Reply #175 on: June 10, 2012, 11:51:29 AM »

...

I'm wondering if my branch of SRY2627 orginates from around Northern Italy.

Arch

I might agree seeing this map (also posted in another thread)

http://iberianroots.com/Images/spain%20R-SRY2627%20percent.png

MJost
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Arch Y.
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« Reply #176 on: June 10, 2012, 12:26:35 PM »

In regards to the Huguenots debate, I tried looking at other regions where their presence has been felt. So far I can't pin down anything that would give me any great confidence to say that SRY2627+ is closely tied to the Huguenots. However, I am finding a lot of similarities with SRY2627+ in regional affinities such as the Plantaurel region where Huguenots were settled but that may not prove anything.

My suggestion has nothing to do with the religious question, apart from the fact that a religious issue caused many of those guys to leave ancestral homes in an interesting (and now relatively untested) central to SW part of what is now called France -- especially around the port of La Rochelle.  The SNPs of anthropological interest happened earlier than Jesus, let alone earlier than the Protestant Reformation or the revocation of the Edict of Nantes.

I only suggest that the Huguenot project might be one place, probably of several places, to look for testable candidates.  That is, people with male-line ancestry from that area with visible long haplotypes, who clearly don't mind being tested, and aren't troubled by the laws, politicians, or journalists of France.  As I said, that's not a random sample; but in several other respects it might be better than a ten or twelve marker academic sample in which all the "random" candidates are from Toulouse, etc.

It would obviously produce a different sort of information -- not the present day percent concentration of SNP X in department Y, but perhaps more akin to aDNA, not all that ancient but tested to a level higher than aDNA usually gets tested.  And with confirmation that the SNP in question, with a known place of origin about 325 years ago, survives at present.

When I plotted out SRY2627+ findings in France, the highest percentages clustered around the La Rochelle-Poitou Charentes-Loire Atlantique region. A few also around the Pyrenees-Atlantique region surfaced up as well. Commercially it seems that most SRY2627+ is primarily found on the Atlantic French coastal regions and La Rochelle is the local area with the highest numbers. This makes the possibility of explaining why SRY2627+ is at 13% on El Hierro Island (even though Mallorca could be the source of some too). The Acadians of Nova Scotia mostly trace their lineages to the La Rochelle region, as well many Quebecois. I'm sure the same would have held true for colonies suchs as Port Royale in Charleston, S.C. and the one in Jacksonville, FL (Fort Caroline) had not the Spaniards killed off most of the inhabitants. Many of these early late 16th C. to early 17th C. settlers left the port of La Rochelle. The only problem is finding the New World links of SRY2627 in places like the Acadie region in Nova Scotia and in the Cajuns of Louisiana.

Arch

I am the only person of Acadian/Cajun origin that has tested as SRY2627.  Most Acadians are L21.  I do strongly suspect that SRY2627 is centered in the Pyrenees region of both France and Spain, and that it made its way up the coast of France and to Britain from there.

Within the "first" cluster of SRY2627 and DYS490=10, my closest GDs seem to point away from the more northern SRY2627/DYS490=10 people as they average out around the 29 GD mark. Using Julliet as a baseline since his is the closest within the specific cluster, I notice that his GDs gravitate towards the more southerly French  SRY2627 and two presumed Spanish ancestry of Garcia and Silva-Hernandez.

The one person that 15 out of 18 people come closest to in GD is Alberti from near Asiago, Italy. Average GD to Alberti for all DYS490=10 group is 16 GD with Ankele at 9 GD as the closet member. Ankele also has quite a few people that are close GDs to him. Yours and Maloy's is around 14 GD at 67 markers to Ankele. At 70 markers, Tune is around 19 GD and I'm at 22 GD. So I'm guessing Tune's ancestry is more northwestern of Ankele where as mine is more western moving towards Julliet.

I thinking that I'm more northerly or southern of Julliet but only slightly within the Poitou or Vendee region. With members who are near the Loire R. I start to move away in GDs and only when I start approaching southern France and Spain that my GD approaches the higher numbers again (with Garcia kind of being the closest southern GD at 27).  Ankele and Alberti really throw me off though, even if Marotte seems to push me further west of Julliet.  I'm also closer to Marotte at 25 GD than I am with yours at 26 GD.  1 GD is not too far off, I would guess it pushes me a tad north of La Rochelle.

Taking out Ankele and Alberti since they are identified in a different cluster of DYS490=10,  I would presume my best guesstimate my ancestry in the subclade is south of the Loire R., north of the Garonne R. With Alberti and Ankele factored in, my guess is that I start going east towards the French and Italian Alps. How far I really don't know, but Julliet is closer to both (particularly Alberti by only 1 GD) than I am. BTW, Julliet and I share some rare STRs, in particular DYS448=10; so that's why I used him as a baseline.

I hope all that made sense.

Arch
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #177 on: June 10, 2012, 12:36:13 PM »

...

I'm wondering if my branch of SRY2627 orginates from around Northern Italy.

Arch

I might agree seeing this map (also posted in another thread)

http://iberianroots.com/Images/spain%20R-SRY2627%20percent.png

MJost

If I factor in Ankele and Alberti in my GD calculations it looks like many of us with DYS490=10 move quite a ways east away from the Atlantic French region of Poitou-Charentes, Vendee, Loire Atlantique region right towards the Italian Alps.  I think Marotte is the only one in France (from the interior) that gets closest to Ankele in southern Germany at 12 GD.  However, even the more northerly SRY2627 such as Luguet (near Calais) pushes slightly closer by 1 GD to Alberti over Ankele. The other northerly SRY2627 person Wangermez (Belgium) is equal GDs at 24 to both Ankele and Alberti.  Everybody I have selected have tested with a min. of 67 markers.

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Arch Y.
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« Reply #178 on: June 10, 2012, 12:50:35 PM »

Just doing a GD comparison of presumably Spanish descent SRY2627 at 67 markers, most score at 26 GD and highest is 30 GD in the Azores (presuming Portugese descent).  I also threw in a Polish SRY2627 member just for gee whiz geographical distances. We are at 36 GD at a much higher resolution of 95 markers being compared.

Arch
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« Reply #179 on: June 10, 2012, 01:03:59 PM »


Hmmm, interesting. Z199, Z200, Z201, Z202, Z203, Z204, Z205, Z262, Z263, Z264, Z265, Z266, Z267, Z269.  So given that Z262 is between L176.2 and SRY2627, we can further presume so are the others that are listed here?

I think the odds are that, out of the 14 you listed, 7 are above SRY2627 and 7 are below.  But my Z262+ and presumed SRY2627- proves at least Z262 is above SRY2627.

What's the status of Z262 versus L176.2 and L165.  Do we have confirmation from FTDNA and/or the 1000 HG project that Z263 is parallel to L165 under L176.2?

There have been three tests reported in the SRY2627 group, one positive and two negative.  All three are in kits that are L176.2+, so that proves Z262 is below L176.2.  Kit #171839 is L147.3+/Z262-, and my kit is L147.3-/Z262+, so that proves those two are on the same level.  1000 HG, according to the year-old chart, along with my implied SRY2627-, indicates Z262 is above SRY2627, but L165 is not on that chart, so there is no indication whether L165 is below or parallel to Z262.

Interestingly, Isidro ordered Z262 and Z198 at about the same time I did, actually one batch apart, and our Z262 results came back the same day, but I came back Z198+ and he hasn't got a result yet.  That makes me wonder if he's going to come back Z198-, which would be interesting.

If kit #171839 also ordered a Z198 at the same time he ordered Z262, then his didn't come back either. 

Two new Z262 tests have come in.  One kit is SRY2627+/Z262+, which along with my Z262+/presumed SRY2627- and the 1000 HG results, proves more conclusively that Z262 is above SRY2627.

Another kit is L165+/Z262-, so with the kit that is L165-/Z262+/SRY2627+ it proves that L165 and Z262 are on the same level below L176.2.

Still conspicuously absent as I write this are any new results for Z198.



Did you have any testing done at 23andMe? If so, what is your Northern European percentage versus Southern European percentage for Global Similarity?

I though it was interesting that Isidrio with ancestry from Valencia has a slightly higher Northern European percentage than me, but clearly he has a higher Southern European percentage.

My only guess is that SRY2627 origins (at least for the DYS490=10 cluster) is near the Italian Alps. This is also considering that approximately some 70% of SRY2627+ with DYS490=10 have some really close GDs to Alberti and the other 30% would probably fall within a region between Ankele and Alberti.

Given the Pyrenean studies and the strong affinities of SRY2627 around the Occitan/Gascon and Catalan speaking regions. I am starting to think the Italian Alps or perhaps around the Occitan Valleys are good candidates for my "cluster" based on the Global Similarities and GD assessments.

Arch
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DavidCar
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« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2012, 02:24:02 PM »


Did you have any testing done at 23andMe? If so, what is your Northern European percentage versus Southern European percentage for Global Similarity?

...

Arch

I don't have any kits from this group at 23andme.  This should be more interesting when we get a more clearly defined group of Z262+ results.
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2012, 02:52:30 PM »


Did you have any testing done at 23andMe? If so, what is your Northern European percentage versus Southern European percentage for Global Similarity?

...

Arch

I don't have any kits from this group at 23andme.  This should be more interesting when we get a more clearly defined group of Z262+ results.

I agree.  With all the new Z findings, it will certainly help narrow down things.  I definitely would like to see how it unfolds in comparison to what I just posted about genetic distances calculations for my cluster.

Arch
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 02:53:00 PM by Arch Y. » Logged
samIsaack
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« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2012, 03:57:53 PM »

Just for the sake of comparison,  here are my closest Gd's at 67 markers.. For those of you who don't know, I am a 490=12 SRY2627, which seems to be a rarity in these forum enviroments.

Gd of 13  Fourroux, Vic, France (Vichy?)
Gd of 14  Kemp, German?
Gd of 14  Hansen, Denmark
Gd of 14  Rosales, Banos de Rio Tobia, La Rioja, Logrono, Spain
Gd of 14  Blankenship, (English?)
Gd of 14  Spence, Belfast, Ireland
Gd of 15  Hefter, Renchen, Rust, Germany
Gd of 15  Gilliland, Scotland
Gd of 15  Dossey, (German? French?)
Gd of 15  Inacio, Portugal
Gd of 15  Grouazel Krauss, Brittany, France
Gd of 15  Cantrell, Wales

A Gd of 30 at 67 markers is my highest gd and this is with Wangermez out of Beclers, Belgium. 
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2012, 04:15:55 PM »

FYI

Using 25 years per generation, the TRMCA at GD15 would be about 1,612 yrs at new MarkoH mutation rates.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
samIsaack
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« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2012, 04:25:36 PM »

FYI

Using 25 years per generation, the TRMCA at GD15 would be about 1,612 yrs at new MarkoH mutation rates.

Thanks for the info!
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2012, 05:24:59 PM »

Just for the sake of comparison,  here are my closest Gd's at 67 markers.. For those of you who don't know, I am a 490=12 SRY2627, which seems to be a rarity in these forum enviroments.

Gd of 13  Fourroux, Vic, France (Vichy?)
Gd of 14  Kemp, German?
Gd of 14  Hansen, Denmark
Gd of 14  Rosales, Banos de Rio Tobia, La Rioja, Logrono, Spain
Gd of 14  Blankenship, (English?)
Gd of 14  Spence, Belfast, Ireland
Gd of 15  Hefter, Renchen, Rust, Germany
Gd of 15  Gilliland, Scotland
Gd of 15  Dossey, (German? French?)
Gd of 15  Inacio, Portugal
Gd of 15  Grouazel Krauss, Brittany, France
Gd of 15  Cantrell, Wales

A Gd of 30 at 67 markers is my highest gd and this is with Wangermez out of Beclers, Belgium.  

How many markers are they compared against?  It's interesting that your closest GD per this table is in southern France.  The word Vic has nothing to do with Vichy, matter of fact its probably Aquitaini or Iberian as Vic is in Catalonia is well known for its delicious Iberica Jamon.  Oops, never mind I just re-read the post.  Pretty amazing that your GDs are at around 14 and 15.  Wangermez shows the highest GD out of most DYS490=10 group. When I take Alberti and Ankele out of the comparison, my closest GD is at 67 markers is Julliet at 21 GD.  Tune is my closest GD at a higher resolution at 70 plus STRs compared.

Arch
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 05:34:07 PM by Arch Y. » Logged
Jason Bourgeois
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« Reply #186 on: June 10, 2012, 05:37:54 PM »

Just for the sake of comparison,  here are my closest Gd's at 67 markers.. For those of you who don't know, I am a 490=12 SRY2627, which seems to be a rarity in these forum enviroments.

Gd of 13  Fourroux, Vic, France (Vichy?)
Gd of 14  Kemp, German?
Gd of 14  Hansen, Denmark
Gd of 14  Rosales, Banos de Rio Tobia, La Rioja, Logrono, Spain
Gd of 14  Blankenship, (English?)
Gd of 14  Spence, Belfast, Ireland
Gd of 15  Hefter, Renchen, Rust, Germany
Gd of 15  Gilliland, Scotland
Gd of 15  Dossey, (German? French?)
Gd of 15  Inacio, Portugal
Gd of 15  Grouazel Krauss, Brittany, France
Gd of 15  Cantrell, Wales

A Gd of 30 at 67 markers is my highest gd and this is with Wangermez out of Beclers, Belgium.  

How many markers are they compared against?  It's interesting that your closest GD per this table is in southern France.  The word Vic has nothing to do with Vichy, matter of fact its probably Aquitaini or Iberian as Vic is in Catalonia is well known for its delicious Iberica Jamon.  Oops, never mind I just re-read the post.  Pretty amazing that your GDs are at around 14 and 15.  Wangermez shows the highest GD out of most DYS490=10 group. When I take Alberti and Ankele out of the comparison, my closest GD is at 67 markers is Julliet at 21 GD.  Tune is my closest GD at a higher resolution at 70 plus STRs compared.

Arch


Vic=Vic-en-Bigorre (Hautes-Pyrenees France)
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #187 on: June 10, 2012, 05:51:21 PM »

Just for the sake of comparison,  here are my closest Gd's at 67 markers.. For those of you who don't know, I am a 490=12 SRY2627, which seems to be a rarity in these forum enviroments.

Gd of 13  Fourroux, Vic, France (Vichy?)
Gd of 14  Kemp, German?
Gd of 14  Hansen, Denmark
Gd of 14  Rosales, Banos de Rio Tobia, La Rioja, Logrono, Spain
Gd of 14  Blankenship, (English?)
Gd of 14  Spence, Belfast, Ireland
Gd of 15  Hefter, Renchen, Rust, Germany
Gd of 15  Gilliland, Scotland
Gd of 15  Dossey, (German? French?)
Gd of 15  Inacio, Portugal
Gd of 15  Grouazel Krauss, Brittany, France
Gd of 15  Cantrell, Wales

A Gd of 30 at 67 markers is my highest gd and this is with Wangermez out of Beclers, Belgium.  

How many markers are they compared against?  It's interesting that your closest GD per this table is in southern France.  The word Vic has nothing to do with Vichy, matter of fact its probably Aquitaini or Iberian as Vic is in Catalonia is well known for its delicious Iberica Jamon.  Oops, never mind I just re-read the post.  Pretty amazing that your GDs are at around 14 and 15.  Wangermez shows the highest GD out of most DYS490=10 group. When I take Alberti and Ankele out of the comparison, my closest GD is at 67 markers is Julliet at 21 GD.  Tune is my closest GD at a higher resolution at 70 plus STRs compared.

Arch


Vic=Vic-en-Bigorre (Hautes-Pyrenees France)

It's amazing how many SRY2627 seem to have their closest GDs so far south, at least within the DYS490=10 group. I do know that DYS490=10 is found south of the Pyrenees, mainly along the southeastern Iberian coastline. However, it seems like DYS490=12 that has the largest percentages south of the Pyrenees.

Arch
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samIsaack
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« Reply #188 on: June 10, 2012, 06:12:58 PM »

Here's the next set at a Gd of 16 to 17

Gd of 16  Casey, Ireland
Gd of 17  Dunbar, Scotland
Gd of 17  Boyd, England
Gd of 17  Robert, La Rochelle, France
Gd of 17  Corbett, French?
Gd of 17  Lancaster, English?
Gd of 17  Rose, Azores

Its kind of hard to say where my line originated.. It seems awfully scattered. I wouldn't give the Gd of 13 a precedence over the gds of 14 to 15. I would consider their age and distance to essentially be the same. I'm amazed at how scattered my cluster is.. I'd say a French origin that quickly spread in all directions.. I'd say my line was amongst the first travelling to the Isles. A very Atlantic feel to my group.

*Corbett seems to be Scottish of French-Norman derivation.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 06:19:49 PM by samIsaack » Logged

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« Reply #189 on: June 10, 2012, 07:05:26 PM »

Here's the next set at a Gd of 16 to 17

Gd of 16  Casey, Ireland
Gd of 17  Dunbar, Scotland
Gd of 17  Boyd, England
Gd of 17  Robert, La Rochelle, France
Gd of 17  Corbett, French?
Gd of 17  Lancaster, English?
Gd of 17  Rose, Azores

Its kind of hard to say where my line originated.. It seems awfully scattered. I wouldn't give the Gd of 13 a precedence over the gds of 14 to 15. I would consider their age and distance to essentially be the same. I'm amazed at how scattered my cluster is.. I'd say a French origin that quickly spread in all directions.. I'd say my line was amongst the first travelling to the Isles. A very Atlantic feel to my group.

*Corbett seems to be Scottish of French-Norman derivation.

The problem is SRY2627 is all over the place, but the nice thing is that it appears to sort of cluster in certain areas.  A GD of 13 versus 14 means a closer genetic connection. It may not seem like a lot depending on the rate used but no matter which way its sliced, it's still closer.  However, it should take more than one person to make any sense of it geographically.  Take all the persons who have a GD of 13 and 14, see if they concentrate in any one area and then compare their GDs with each other to see what you get. DYS490=10 definitely clusters around the Atlantic French coastal region, but 70% of everybody in the A0 cluster has a close GD to Alberti and Ankele, obviously this would push the origins of this cluster to the east. I'm taking a guess as far to the French or Italian Alps.

Arch
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #190 on: June 10, 2012, 08:46:50 PM »

One thing you may do is pull your geographically close haplotypes and run a Ken's Gen111t (removing the 68to111 marker colums) against all SRY2627 and see what age you see since MikeW has the Z196/SRY2627 coalescence age of 900BC with a Sigma 1 of 900BC to 1200BC.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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« Reply #191 on: June 11, 2012, 10:02:25 PM »

One thing you may do is pull your geographically close haplotypes and run a Ken's Gen111t (removing the 68to111 marker colums) against all SRY2627 and see what age you see since MikeW has the Z196/SRY2627 coalescence age of 900BC with a Sigma 1 of 900BC to 1200BC.

Approx. 1350 BCE for SRY2627.

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« Reply #192 on: June 12, 2012, 01:35:21 AM »

I'm becoming more and more convinced that SRY2627 emerged from somewhere in Northern Italy based on the comparison of GDs.  Most SRY2627 outside of Italy and within Western Europe appear to have a close GD to the Italian SRY267 folks. 

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« Reply #193 on: June 12, 2012, 01:38:30 AM »

Another L176.2 kit has new results, Z198+ and Z262-.  Again, this makes Isidro's continued lack of a Z198 result look conspicuous.
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« Reply #194 on: June 12, 2012, 08:31:15 AM »

Another L176.2 kit has new results, Z198+ and Z262-.  Again, this makes Isidro's continued lack of a Z198 result look conspicuous.

I am still waiting for results on Z198.I don't know what it will mean to me either way...
I haven't been able to understand where it will seat. I wonder what is it's relation with L165 if there is any.

Will post result right away, it is an old Genographic spit so maybe is time for fresh samples.
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Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b5    Shorthand    R-L176.2 mtDNA    HV  23andMe: HV0

M269+ P312+ Z196+ L176.2+ Z198+

Z262- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- M65- M37- M222- M153- L21- L165-

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« Reply #195 on: June 12, 2012, 10:32:49 AM »

I'm becoming more and more convinced that SRY2627 emerged from somewhere in Northern Italy based on the comparison of GDs.  Most SRY2627 outside of Italy and within Western Europe appear to have a close GD to the Italian SRY267 folks. 

Arch

Sorry but I don't think that one Italian result (Alberti) is enough to determine the origin of the entire subclade.  For that matter, Alberti has earlier roots in Bavaria not Italy.
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« Reply #196 on: June 12, 2012, 10:53:45 AM »

Another L176.2 kit has new results, Z198+ and Z262-.  Again, this makes Isidro's continued lack of a Z198 result look conspicuous.

I am still waiting for results on Z198.I don't know what it will mean to me either way...
I haven't been able to understand where it will seat. I wonder what is it's relation with L165 if there is any.

Will post result right away, it is an old Genographic spit so maybe is time for fresh samples.

Kit#170048 with Z198+/L165+ proves L165 is below Z198.

I'm guessing you're Z198-, which would prove that L176.2 is above Z198, and that your DNA split off earlier from the path to SRY2627 than some of the other kits. 

I'm also wondering if kit#171839 which is Z262- also ordered Z198 the same time you and I did, and also does not have a result.  He is L147.3+, which in that scenario would mean you might also be positive for L147.3. 

That's just a guess, which I'm waiting to be proven or disproven.
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« Reply #197 on: June 12, 2012, 06:55:32 PM »

Another L176.2 kit has new results, Z198+ and Z262-.  Again, this makes Isidro's continued lack of a Z198 result look conspicuous.

I am still waiting for results on Z198.I don't know what it will mean to me either way...
I haven't been able to understand where it will seat. I wonder what is it's relation with L165 if there is any.

Will post result right away, it is an old Genographic spit so maybe is time for fresh samples.

Kit#170048 with Z198+/L165+ proves L165 is below Z198.

I'm guessing you're Z198-, which would prove that L176.2 is above Z198, and that your DNA split off earlier from the path to SRY2627 than some of the other kits. 

I'm also wondering if kit#171839 which is Z262- also ordered Z198 the same time you and I did, and also does not have a result.  He is L147.3+, which in that scenario would mean you might also be positive for L147.3. 

That's just a guess, which I'm waiting to be proven or disproven


Thanks for taking the time to explain what you know about Z198.

Let's see if I got it:
 Z262 sits between L176.2 and SRY2627
Z198 position is unknown but all points that is sitting between L176.2 and L165.

There is a chance I might be Z198+, but that chance is weak I am basing it solely on my 37 STR's GD.Of all 3 groups:L176.2, SRY2627 and L165 my GD is quite closer to L165.

I can't wait to get the results. L147.3 might be my next test, I just want Z198 cleared either way.

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Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b5    Shorthand    R-L176.2 mtDNA    HV  23andMe: HV0

M269+ P312+ Z196+ L176.2+ Z198+

Z262- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- M65- M37- M222- M153- L21- L165-

DavidCar
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« Reply #198 on: June 12, 2012, 08:10:00 PM »

Another L176.2 kit has new results, Z198+ and Z262-.  Again, this makes Isidro's continued lack of a Z198 result look conspicuous.

I am still waiting for results on Z198.I don't know what it will mean to me either way...
I haven't been able to understand where it will seat. I wonder what is it's relation with L165 if there is any.

Will post result right away, it is an old Genographic spit so maybe is time for fresh samples.

Kit#170048 with Z198+/L165+ proves L165 is below Z198.

I'm guessing you're Z198-, which would prove that L176.2 is above Z198, and that your DNA split off earlier from the path to SRY2627 than some of the other kits. 

I'm also wondering if kit#171839 which is Z262- also ordered Z198 the same time you and I did, and also does not have a result.  He is L147.3+, which in that scenario would mean you might also be positive for L147.3. 

That's just a guess, which I'm waiting to be proven or disproven


Thanks for taking the time to explain what you know about Z198.

Let's see if I got it:
 Z262 sits between L176.2 and SRY2627
Z198 position is unknown but all points that is sitting between L176.2 and L165.

There is a chance I might be Z198+, but that chance is weak I am basing it solely on my 37 STR's GD.Of all 3 groups:L176.2, SRY2627 and L165 my GD is quite closer to L165.

I can't wait to get the results. L147.3 might be my next test, I just want Z198 cleared either way.


I'm not an expert in STRs, but if yours are closer to L165, then you should have an excellent chance of being Z198+.  But then why hasn't the result come back yet?

All the evidence so far is that Z198 is in exactly the same position on the tree as L176.2, which is why it would be interesting if your test came back negative. 
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #199 on: June 12, 2012, 10:21:24 PM »

I'm becoming more and more convinced that SRY2627 emerged from somewhere in Northern Italy based on the comparison of GDs.  Most SRY2627 outside of Italy and within Western Europe appear to have a close GD to the Italian SRY267 folks. 

Arch

Sorry but I don't think that one Italian result (Alberti) is enough to determine the origin of the entire subclade.  For that matter, Alberti has earlier roots in Bavaria not Italy.

My understanding is that the region from where he is from is/was called Baveria since many Bavarians did arrive there; most were involved in the timber industry from my understanding.

Arch
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