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Author Topic: SRY2627  (Read 59209 times)
DavidCar
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« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2012, 03:09:46 PM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

Interesting.  You'd think one of their Z262 tests would be an SRY2827+, which would indicate Z262 was below, and possibly a rarity below SRY2627.  And you'd think their Z198 test was on an L176.2, suggesting a split between the two markers.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.

I was thinking that with the 14 new Zs on the chart at the same level as SRY2627, it would be most likely that 7 were above and 7 below SRY2627, with my kit being most likely positive for three of them.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:15:56 PM by DavidCar » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2012, 05:13:48 PM »

Update: At 76 markers myself and Toone have a GD of 22.

Arch

A GD of 22 is probably too large (i.e., too far back in time) to determine the precise region of one's ancestry unfortunately.  

My closest GD is 13 of 67 markers, with Rollins of unknown English ancestry, and second closet is 15 of 67 markers, with Fourroux of Bigorre (however he is 490=12), and then 17 of 67 markers, with Gariepy of Chalosse.  This leaves two major regions:  southwest France and Britain/northwestern France as possibilities of origin for my line.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 05:15:17 PM by Jason Bourgeois » Logged
DavidCar
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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2012, 10:54:43 AM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+ 
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2012, 11:13:56 AM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+ 

What are the implications?  Does this mean that Z262 and Z198 are on a parallel lineage to SRY2627?
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DavidCar
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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2012, 11:23:44 AM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+ 

What are the implications?  Does this mean that Z262 and Z198 are on a parallel lineage to SRY2627?

And where does L165 fit in? 

I think Z198 and L176.2 are parallel.  And Z262 is above SRY2627, so that all the SRY2627s should be positive for Z262. 

So what is needed to put Z262 on ISOGG? I'm presuming I'm SRY2627- because I have a 66/67 STR match which is SRY2627-, though I've not taken the test myself.  Is this good enough, or do I need to take the SRY2627 test?  Does ISOGG take into account the 1000 Genomes data?
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2012, 11:28:50 AM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+ 

What are the implications?  Does this mean that Z262 and Z198 are on a parallel lineage to SRY2627?

And where does L165 fit in? 

I think Z198 and L176.2 are parallel.  And Z262 is above SRY2627, so that all the SRY2627s should be positive for Z262. 

So what is needed to put Z262 on ISOGG? I'm presuming I'm SRY2627- because I have a 66/67 STR match which is SRY2627-, though I've not taken the test myself.  Is this good enough, or do I need to take the SRY2627 test?  Does ISOGG take into account the 1000 Genomes data?

No, you actually have to validate via SNP testing at a sanctioned (whatever that means) lab, like FTDNA.
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razyn
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« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2012, 11:38:51 AM »


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+ 

What are the implications?  Does this mean that Z262 and Z198 are on a parallel lineage to SRY2627?

One of the implications is that David is more or less a haplogroup, today.... in that the Z262 positive results (per FTDNA Gbrowse) are one for nine.  Actually, two haplogroups -- Z198 also only has one positive, of two tests.

It might be interesting to compare his STR markers to those of the other eight guys who tested Z262, but so far I don't know who they are.  Perhaps their identities are retrievable from the SNP page of the results within R-P312, R1b or SRY2627 projects -- I haven't gone searching for them, and normally I only look at the colorized results anyhow.

Another implication is that sometimes a WAG purchase of a SNP test or two is worthwhile.  Way to go.  Now, if only somebody who knows what it means will see this thread, and tell the rest of us.

Btw there is a similar puzzle going on with Leyton, on the Z209 side of this tree -- Z278+ but M153-, more or less out on a limb by himself.
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DavidCar
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« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 11:43:00 AM »

Just looking at the Gbrowse at FTDNA today, I see that the current rate of positive tests for Z198 is 0 of 1, and positive for Z262 is 0 of 8. I don't know who has been testing; but if that group of tests is "targeted," the target has been missed, so far.

So my L176.2+/SRY2627- kit is likely Z262-, with the Z198 result potentially going either way.


Wrong.  Turns out I'm Z262+ and Z198+  

What are the implications?  Does this mean that Z262 and Z198 are on a parallel lineage to SRY2627?

And where does L165 fit in?  

I think Z198 and L176.2 are parallel.  And Z262 is above SRY2627, so that all the SRY2627s should be positive for Z262.  

So what is needed to put Z262 on ISOGG? I'm presuming I'm SRY2627- because I have a 66/67 STR match which is SRY2627-, though I've not taken the test myself.  Is this good enough, or do I need to take the SRY2627 test?  Does ISOGG take into account the 1000 Genomes data?

No, you actually have to validate via SNP testing at a sanctioned (whatever that means) lab, like FTDNA.

So what will it take to get Z198 onto ISOGG as equivalent to L176.2 if they can't count the 1000 Genomes data?  Probably an M153 to test Z198 negative, and an SRY2627 and an L165 to test positive?  Is that enough?

Now I notice that the ISOGG M153 and the Draft chart M153 are way different, so my previous comment should be revised.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 11:45:22 AM by DavidCar » Logged
DavidCar
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« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2012, 11:48:56 AM »

One of the implications is that David is more or less a haplogroup, today.... in that the Z262 positive results (per FTDNA Gbrowse) are one for nine.  Actually, two haplogroups -- Z198 also only has one positive, of two tests.

Cool, I'm my own unique haplogroup.  But I want to know who else is in here with me, so I hope we see some new tests soon.

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DavidCar
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« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2012, 01:26:53 PM »


It might be interesting to compare his STR markers to those of the other eight guys who tested Z262, but so far I don't know who they are.  Perhaps their identities are retrievable from the SNP page of the results within R-P312, R1b or SRY2627 projects -- I haven't gone searching for them, and normally I only look at the colorized results anyhow.


I'm the only result on the SNP page for the P312, SRY2627 or L165 projects for either Z262 or Z198. 
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samIsaack
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« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2012, 02:12:10 PM »

Very cool! Glad to see some activity and progress for the L176.2 side of Z196. As always, I volunteer my sample for testing if need be.
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

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Arch Y.
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« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2012, 01:22:36 PM »

Update: At 76 markers myself and Toone have a GD of 22.

Arch

A GD of 22 is probably too large (i.e., too far back in time) to determine the precise region of one's ancestry unfortunately.  

My closest GD is 13 of 67 markers, with Rollins of unknown English ancestry, and second closet is 15 of 67 markers, with Fourroux of Bigorre (however he is 490=12), and then 17 of 67 markers, with Gariepy of Chalosse.  This leaves two major regions:  southwest France and Britain/northwestern France as possibilities of origin for my line.


True. However, what are the odds of finding another SRY2627+ person and then connecting surnames in the 1600s? The GD was calculated using over 70 markers and this usually makes the GDs bounce up higher.

Arch


 
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Jason Bourgeois
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« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2012, 04:51:14 PM »

Update: At 76 markers myself and Toone have a GD of 22.

Arch

A GD of 22 is probably too large (i.e., too far back in time) to determine the precise region of one's ancestry unfortunately.  

My closest GD is 13 of 67 markers, with Rollins of unknown English ancestry, and second closet is 15 of 67 markers, with Fourroux of Bigorre (however he is 490=12), and then 17 of 67 markers, with Gariepy of Chalosse.  This leaves two major regions:  southwest France and Britain/northwestern France as possibilities of origin for my line.


True. However, what are the odds of finding another SRY2627+ person and then connecting surnames in the 1600s? The GD was calculated using over 70 markers and this usually makes the GDs bounce up higher.

Arch


 

Oh, I didn't notice that there was a N. America connection.  Good find!
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2012, 11:15:04 PM »

Update: At 76 markers myself and Toone have a GD of 22.

Arch

A GD of 22 is probably too large (i.e., too far back in time) to determine the precise region of one's ancestry unfortunately.  

My closest GD is 13 of 67 markers, with Rollins of unknown English ancestry, and second closet is 15 of 67 markers, with Fourroux of Bigorre (however he is 490=12), and then 17 of 67 markers, with Gariepy of Chalosse.  This leaves two major regions:  southwest France and Britain/northwestern France as possibilities of origin for my line.


True. However, what are the odds of finding another SRY2627+ person and then connecting surnames in the 1600s? The GD was calculated using over 70 markers and this usually makes the GDs bounce up higher.

Arch


 

Oh, I didn't notice that there was a N. America connection.  Good find!

Looking back toward's Leicester for Toone's ancestry in Britain, I figured mine can't be too far off. I looked at the surname frequencies in the 1800s and Derbyshire is pretty high up on the list, as well Staffordshire. I also noticed a high frequency around the Derby region itself. Yes, I know that frequency may not indicate any origins but I think the odds are highly favorable of at least finding a genetic connection to this region. Historically, I think the region fits perfectly with my surname given the ballad of Robin Hood. I had no idea that a good portion of Derbyshire was part of Sherwood Forest and possibly close to Barnsdale Forest in the North. My guess is the surname originated from the Midlands region possibly around the mid to late 1300s. I've been scouring places like the famous Macclesfeld Forest, Bosworth, Repton, and many other places in Derbyshire for my surname listings from the 1500s. So far the best hits come from the Repton to Wirksworth area. I just hope I'm onto something and not on something. :-)

Arch
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DavidCar
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« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2012, 10:55:48 AM »

I see L147.3 is a subclade of L176.2 apparently on the same level as L165 and SRY2627.  It's not that way on any draft trees I've seen, but I find L176.2s with both L147.3+ and L147.3-, and an L165 and a SRY2627 with L147.3-.  Growse says there are 141 derived out of 1974 tested, but I don't see many on the SNP pages of the main P312 projects.  So is it worth testing? 
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Isidro
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« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2012, 11:12:01 AM »

I see L147.3 is a subclade of L176.2 apparently on the same level as L165 and SRY2627.  It's not that way on any draft trees I've seen, but I find L176.2s with both L147.3+ and L147.3-, and an L165 and a SRY2627 with L147.3-.  Growse says there are 141 derived out of 1974 tested, but I don't see many on the SNP pages of the main P312 projects.  So is it worth testing? 

Thanks for posting that, I am also interested  in  this L147.3, is not listed as an option on my FTDNA haplotree.
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Haplogroups
Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b5    Shorthand    R-L176.2 mtDNA    HV  23andMe: HV0

M269+ P312+ Z196+ L176.2+ Z198+

Z262- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- M65- M37- M222- M153- L21- L165-

DavidCar
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« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2012, 11:35:55 AM »

I see L147.3 is a subclade of L176.2 apparently on the same level as L165 and SRY2627.  It's not that way on any draft trees I've seen, but I find L176.2s with both L147.3+ and L147.3-, and an L165 and a SRY2627 with L147.3-.  Growse says there are 141 derived out of 1974 tested, but I don't see many on the SNP pages of the main P312 projects.  So is it worth testing?  

Thanks for posting that, I am also interested  in  this L147.3, is not listed as an option on my FTDNA haplotree.


It can be ordered through "Advanced Tests" not "Advanced SNP Test" or "My Haplotree".

I've wondered if it was decided that L147 was unstable or something, as it appears in L147.1, L147.2, L147.3 and L147.4 versions.  I also noticed in the Kerchner R1b project that there's an L147.3 that's P312-, so someone's not paying too much attention.  
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 11:56:46 AM by DavidCar » Logged
DavidCar
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« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2012, 11:47:11 AM »

If this looks right I may post it on the Yahoo group to try to get some comparison tests for my Z262 and Z198 results:


---- If an L176.2 tests Z262+:

Adds no new information to the SNP tree.

---- If an L176.2 tests Z262-:

Officially proves Z262 is downstream from L176.2.  This is already known unofficially from the 1000 Genomes data.

---- If an L176.2 tests Z198+:

Adds no new information to the SNP tree.

---- If an L176.2 tests Z198-:

Unexpected new information:  Proves L176.2 is upstream from Z198.


---- If an L165 test Z262+:

New information:  Proves L165 is downstream from Z262

---- If an L165 tests Z262-:

New information:  Proves L165 is not downstream from Z262

---- If an L165 tests Z198+:

Expected but new information:  Proves L165 is downstream from Z198.

---- If an L165 tests Z198-:

Possible but unexpected new information: Proves L176.2 is upstream from Z198, and that L165 is not downstream from Z198.


---- If an SRY2627 test Z262+:

Officially proves SRY2627 is downstream from Z262.  This is already known unofficially from the 1000 Genomes data combined with my Z262+ result and my presumed SRY2627- status.

---- If an SRY2627 tests Z262-:

This should be impossible, but not officially proven to be impossible.

---- If an SRY2627 tests Z198+:

Officially proves SRY2627 is downstream from Z198.  Already known unofficially.

---- If an SRY2627 tests Z198-:

This should be impossible, but not officially proven to be impossible.

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DavidCar
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« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2012, 02:53:27 PM »

I see L147.3 is a subclade of L176.2 apparently on the same level as L165 and SRY2627.  It's not that way on any draft trees I've seen, but I find L176.2s with both L147.3+ and L147.3-, and an L165 and a SRY2627 with L147.3-.  Growse says there are 141 derived out of 1974 tested, but I don't see many on the SNP pages of the main P312 projects.  So is it worth testing? 

Thanks for posting that, I am also interested  in  this L147.3, is not listed as an option on my FTDNA haplotree.


I decided to go for it and placed my order for L147.3.
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samIsaack
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« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2012, 05:34:11 PM »

I see L147.3 is a subclade of L176.2 apparently on the same level as L165 and SRY2627.  It's not that way on any draft trees I've seen, but I find L176.2s with both L147.3+ and L147.3-, and an L165 and a SRY2627 with L147.3-.  Growse says there are 141 derived out of 1974 tested, but I don't see many on the SNP pages of the main P312 projects.  So is it worth testing? 

I hate to ask, as I've lost track of alot of people from dna-forums, but are you Narky100? He mentioned that L176.2 was his next snp to test and I was very interested in his result if he did test for it.

Thanks for posting that, I am also interested  in  this L147.3, is not listed as an option on my FTDNA haplotree.


I decided to go for it and placed my order for L147.3.
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Y-Dna: R1b-SRY2627

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DavidCar
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« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2012, 05:46:44 PM »


I hate to ask, as I've lost track of alot of people from dna-forums, but are you Narky100? He mentioned that L176.2 was his next snp to test and I was very interested in his result if he did test for it.


No.  My kit (for my cousin's DNA) is 174435.  The 66/67 match (L165-, SRY2627-) is 131195
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Isidro
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« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2012, 09:24:53 AM »




[/quote]

I decided to go for it and placed my order for L147.3.
[/quote]

I will follow suit, I see I probably will test for all three you mentioned hovering around L176.2 unless is just overkill based on the 1000 Genome results?.
Thanks again.
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Haplogroups
Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b5    Shorthand    R-L176.2 mtDNA    HV  23andMe: HV0

M269+ P312+ Z196+ L176.2+ Z198+

Z262- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- M65- M37- M222- M153- L21- L165-

DavidCar
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« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2012, 05:15:02 PM »


I will follow suit, I see I probably will test for all three you mentioned hovering around L176.2 unless is just overkill based on the 1000 Genome results?.
Thanks again.

I don't think there's evidence whether L176.2 is above or below Z198, so you could come back Z198- and prove that they're different and put yourself in a unique category.  So I don't think it's overkill.  All that in my opinion, but it seems most likely that you're positive.  And then you could go either way for Z262 or L147.3.  

Did you get in on yesterday's batch, or are you still thinking about it?  
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 05:34:41 PM by DavidCar » Logged
Isidro
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« Reply #73 on: May 05, 2012, 09:23:33 AM »




I don't think there's evidence whether L176.2 is above or below Z198, so you could come back Z198- and prove that they're different and put yourself in a unique category.  So I don't think it's overkill.  All that in my opinion, but it seems most likely that you're positive.  And then you could go either way for Z262 or L147.3.  

Did you get in on yesterday's batch, or are you still thinking about it?  


Sorry for the response delay, yes I will test for Z198  and Z262  this weekend.

Isidro
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Haplogroups
Y-DNA    R1b1a2a1a1b5    Shorthand    R-L176.2 mtDNA    HV  23andMe: HV0

M269+ P312+ Z196+ L176.2+ Z198+

Z262- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- M65- M37- M222- M153- L21- L165-

DavidCar
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« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2012, 04:35:32 PM »




I don't think there's evidence whether L176.2 is above or below Z198, so you could come back Z198- and prove that they're different and put yourself in a unique category.  So I don't think it's overkill.  All that in my opinion, but it seems most likely that you're positive.  And then you could go either way for Z262 or L147.3.  

Did you get in on yesterday's batch, or are you still thinking about it?  


Sorry for the response delay, yes I will test for Z198  and Z262  this weekend.

Isidro

It will be interesting to see the results.

(I'm not getting notification of messages here for some reason)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 04:50:44 PM by DavidCar » Logged
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