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Author Topic: R1b haplotypes with DYS393=10  (Read 403 times)
realdealt
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« on: February 28, 2012, 03:47:06 PM »

I posted this on Rootsweb but haven't had any answers yet.

I have a handful of supposedly unrelated R-M269 (tested) haplotypes all with DYS393=10, the initial markers being 10,24,14,11,11,14,12,12,x,13,13,29 and they are mostly confined to Ibiza in the Balearic Islands. From YHRD there is one in nearby Barcelona and one other in Belgium. I am guessing they are mostly Spanish. Does anyone know of any other examples of R1b haplotypes and their locations with DYS393=10 ?

Taking this base haplotype a step further in a search at YHRD by removing values for DYS385a,b and DYS389-1 and DYS389-2, still only produces 13 results and they are still limited to Spain and Belgium. It is difficult to say if there is any relationship for this base haplotype between Spain and Belgium with so few markers known. The haplotype now being searched is 10,24,14,11,x,x,12,12,x,x,13,x and the question remains, does anyone know of any other examples of this R1b with DYS393=10 ?

According to SMGF marker details, DYS393=10 occurs at a frequency of 0.036% while in my private collection of Iberian data (n=10,240) the frequency is running at 0.098% which is more than 2 1/2 times greater (3.3 times in R1b only) among Iberian descent.

Robert TarĂ­n
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 06:46:44 AM »

Realdealt, you should examine more STRs and above all some SNPs, but at a first sight it seems to me that these individuals probably are linked and descend simply by one who had a multistep mutation from 13 to 10 (or from 12 to 10). It is rare but happens, like for Napoleon in DYS455 from 11 to 7 and to a friend of mine son in DYS456 from 14 to 11. Of course, being DYS393 a pretty slow mutating marker, this has given origin to a cluster which will last a long time. Nothing  new. For the rest it seems that the haplogroup is a normal R1b1a2 something...
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 11:39:39 AM »

See French Lalanne I put on ySearch from SMGF (TUXTF), who has the very rare DYS393=10, DYS439=9 and DYS463=22. With values in the modal there are many haplotypes, also the Italian Zotta, I put on ySearch and he is certainly R-U152.
It is possible that DYS393=10 is sometimes a convergent mutation of different haplotypes. We should know more values of your Spanish samples.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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