Family Finder Results - Let's Discuss This Stuff!

[rms2]

I'm hoping there are some people here at WFN willing to talk Family Finder results. It seems this subforum gets little attention.

I just got my results this morning.

According to Population Finder, I am 95.37% Western European and 4.63% Middle Eastern. Here's how that breaks down:

Europe (Western European)    Orcadian    95.37%    ±1.76%
Middle East    Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite    4.63%    ±1.76

I understand those ethnic groups listed refer to sample populations and autosomal dna and not necessarily to groups to which my own ancestors belonged. Still, the Middle Eastern component is very interesting, to say the least.

I am new to FF test results, so lend me your experience and wisdom. Let's discuss your results and mine.

I just sent my raw data off to be analyzed by Dr. McDonald. I hope he will do it.

[Mike23]

Europe (Western European)    Orcadian    94.35%    ±2.06%
Middle East  Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish    5.65%  ±2.06%

Recently got my results and will be interested in what McDonald tells you. Is it your impression that it is usual for Western Europeans to have Middle Eastern results?

Regards,

Mike Hannan

[rms2]

Europe (Western European)    Orcadian    94.35%    ±2.06%
Middle East  Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish    5.65%  ±2.06%

Recently got my results and will be interested in what McDonald tells you. Is it your impression that it is usual for Western Europeans to have Middle Eastern results?

Regards,

Mike Hannan

I have seen a lot of Population Finder results, and I can tell you, yours and mine are pretty typical for men of British Isles ancestry. They all seem to be that way: 90-something percent Orcadian, with the remainder Middle Eastern.

[Mike23]

If I might ask, how much is the McDonald analysis?

[rms2]

If I might ask, how much is the McDonald analysis?

As far as I know, it's free. If he writes back and asks for a fee, I'll let you know.

Honestly, he probably should charge something. I would.

[Mike23]

I agree. What a decent person!

[rms2]

I agree. What a decent person!

True, but he has to be overwhelmed with requests like mine by now, and altruism only goes so far.

Pretty soon he'll have to quit or start charging for his services.

[rms2]

I got an email from Dr. McDonald today (I did not expect an answer so soon!). Here is what he wrote:

Most likely fit is 100% English (Western Europe)

which is 100% total Europe

The location error = 0.005191 with 1 group

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,

most likely at the top

English= 1.000

I sent him the raw data without mentioning FTDNA's Population Finder stuff. Apparently Dr. McDonald did not see any Middle Eastern stuff.

I hate to trouble him further, but I wrote a follow-up email asking him how FTDNA got that 4.63% Middle Eastern result.

[rms2]

Wow! I already got a reply!

Here is what I wrote and how Dr. McDonald responded:

[My email]

Thank you very much, Dr, McDonald. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me.

Here is what FTDNA says on my Population Finder page:

Europe (Western European) Orcadian  95.37% ±1.76%
Middle East  Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite  4.63% ±1.76%

Sorry to trouble you further, but can you tell why they gave me that 4.63% Middle Eastern result? As far as I know, my family is European in origin, and, but for two exceptions (one French, one Dutch), all of the surnames in my pedigree are from the British Isles.

Thanks again!


[Dr. McDonald's response]

yes ...  it simply pushes your average position on the map just a bit east ...

i.e. France and Holland are east of England, and for some reason a little

bit pf something farther east substitutes for a large amount less far east.

This happens a lot.

 

Doug McDonald

[rms2]

So, to sum things up, I am pretty confused now.

Dr. McDonald says the best fit for my autosomal results is 100% English, but I still don't understand how FTDNA got that 4.63% Middle Eastern thing.

Maybe as I learn more, I'll figure things out. And maybe in time FTDNA will refine Population Finder a bit more.

[F James]

Stevo have you uploaded your FF raw data results to the GEDMATCH Utility.
http://www.gedmatch.com/

They have a few different ways of comparing FF results,  Compare Autosomal results with FTDNA and 23 and me results,  Triangulation of matching surnames,  and some other things to do with your data eg, Admixture Chromosome painting, are your parents related etc..

The instructions are on the webpage and  FTDNA forums will have several older posts on how to use the utility

[Mike23]

How do I reach Dr McDonald?

Mike

[rms2]

How do I reach Dr McDonald?

Mike

Download your raw data from Family Finder and send it to:   

"Dr. McDonald" <jdmcdona@illinois.edu>

He got back to me pretty quickly.

[rms2]

Stevo have you uploaded your FF raw data results to the GEDMATCH Utility.
http://www.gedmatch.com/

They have a few different ways of comparing FF results,  Compare Autosomal results with FTDNA and 23 and me results,  Triangulation of matching surnames,  and some other things to do with your data eg, Admixture Chromosome painting, are your parents related etc..

The instructions are on the webpage and  FTDNA forums will have several older posts on how to use the utility

I haven't done that yet because I did not know about it. Thanks for the information!

I will probably do it tomorrow. I just got home from taking my wife out for St. Valentine's Day. I had a bit of red wine and am too tired to do much on the computer this evening. I get up at about 0300 to start my long day, so I am headed to bed in a couple of minutes.

But I really appreciate your letting me know about GEDMATCH. I will definitely check it out. I am really interested in the Family Finder thing now.

[Mike23]

Thanks for the Dr.McDonald information.

Best regards,

Mike Hannan

[rms2]

Thanks for the Dr.McDonald information.

Best regards,

Mike Hannan

Let us know what he tells you, please.

[Mike23]

of course I'll post when I get the results.

[Mike23]

Here are my results from Dr. McDonald. Crikees I thought I was Irish!

Most likely fit is 100% English (Western Europe)
which is 100% total Europe
The location error = 0.008126 with 1 group

The following are possible populations,
most likely at the top:

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
 English= 1.000

and that's about it ... very very British.

[rms2]

Here are my results from Dr. McDonald. Crikees I thought I was Irish!

Most likely fit is 100% English (Western Europe)
which is 100% total Europe
The location error = 0.008126 with 1 group

The following are possible populations,
most likely at the top:

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
 English= 1.000

and that's about it ... very very British.[/size]

Well, I wouldn't be too quick to give up on your Irish bona fides.

I'm sure he probably sent you some charts like he sent me, one of which is a PCA "scatter plot". Notice how the English dots are cozied up between the French and the Irish? There isn't much separating them.

I think it depends on what kind of sample populations they have, etc. Maybe as more populations are added, greater refinement will come. Notice, too, that they had no Welsh or Scots or Manx samples to compare us with.

Anyway, your result is pretty much like mine.

I'm starting to get emails from distant cousins now.

[rms2]

Speaking of distant Family Finder cousins, I have 21 pages of matches! Yikes!

Some of them are pretty remote, but just the same, that's a lot.

I think that comes from the fact that various branches of my family have been in this country over 300 years.

[rms2]

My best FF match and I have not been able to find our connection yet, but I just noticed that she and a couple of my other matches share the surname Chastain in their gedcoms. I don't have that surname in my gedcom, but that doesn't mean it doesn't belong there, since I have plenty of gaps in my family tree that are currently filled by unknowns.

What is interesting about that surname, aside from the fact that it keeps popping up among my autosomal matches, is that it is French and, in America, Huguenot. The immigrant progenitor was Pierre Chastain, who settled at Manakintown and eventually wound up in Goochland County, Virginia (just west of Richmond). I already have one known French Huguenot line in my pedigree, Micou, and it likewise came to Virginia and Manakintown. I certainly don't have all its connections filled in, so it could be that the Chastains and Micous got together at some point and sent me some autosomal dna. Pierre Chastain was a contemporary of my French Huguenot 7th great grandfather, Paul Micou.

Anyway, this is fascinating.

Of course, I could be barking up the wrong tree in this case. The connection could come via some other line and be more recent.

[rms2]

I keep hearing from distant cousins via Family Finder. Kind of cool. Seems a worthwhile test to me. The unknowns in my tree make connecting the dots kind of difficult, though. Like my dad's mother's line. Don't know much about that one, unfortunately. That's a gap big enough to truck loads of distant cousins through.

[rms2]

Stevo have you uploaded your FF raw data results to the GEDMATCH Utility.
http://www.gedmatch.com/

They have a few different ways of comparing FF results,  Compare Autosomal results with FTDNA and 23 and me results,  Triangulation of matching surnames,  and some other things to do with your data eg, Admixture Chromosome painting, are your parents related etc..

The instructions are on the webpage and  FTDNA forums will have several older posts on how to use the utility

I just finished uploading my autosomal, x chromosome, and gedcom stuff to Gedmatch. Now I have to wait 24 hours to be able to do the autosomal comparisons.

Thanks for bringing Gedmatch to my attention. Some of the stuff there is intriguing.

[rms2]

Speaking of distant Family Finder cousins, I have 21 pages of matches! Yikes!

Some of them are pretty remote, but just the same, that's a lot.

I think that comes from the fact that various branches of my family have been in this country over 300 years.

Hey! I just noticed that I now have 22 pages of matches instead of 21, an increase of a page in just the last day or so!

Cool!

[rms2]

Speaking of distant Family Finder cousins, I have 21 pages of matches! Yikes!

Some of them are pretty remote, but just the same, that's a lot.

I think that comes from the fact that various branches of my family have been in this country over 300 years.

Hey! I just noticed that I now have 22 pages of matches instead of 21, an increase of a page in just the last day or so!

Cool!

Okay, I counted them. There are ten per page, but only two thus far on page 22, so I have 212 FF matches thus far.

The last time I checked, a couple of days ago, page 21 wasn't even full. Now it's full and there are two on page 22.

That's a lot of people to check out.