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Heber
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« on: July 10, 2011, 05:13:10 AM »

The cover story of the June 2011 National Geographic magazine features the extraordinary archaeological site of Göbekli Tepe in southern Turkey. Built some 11,600 years ago, it is revolutionizing theories on the development of agriculture, religion, and civilization.

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/photos/gobekli-tepe/

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/musi-photography

Who were the people who build this monument. Could they have been R1b-M269 or their ancestors. The Myres study places R1b-M269 in Anotolia at that period. I have plotted the Myres data by Age and Frequency and speculated on the possible migration paths of M269 to his decendants M222.

http://www.box.net/shared/3vxrpcxib9
http://www.box.net/shared/hxp8ie25yv
http://www.box.net/shared/f74c09ti18
http://www.box.net/shared/5q6v31vqcx

Gobekli Tepe would appear to have marked the transition from hunter gatherer to farming. It is located on the northern edge of the Fertile Crescent.
One of the oldest Neolithic Cities was nearby Catal Huyuk.
http://www.catalhoyuk.com/history.html
Some of the first evidence for plant domestication comes from Nevalı Çori, a settlement in the mountains scarcely 20 miles away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neval%C4%B1_%C3%87ori

"At first the Neolithic Revolution was viewed as a single event—a sudden flash of genius—that occurred in a single location, Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now southern Iraq, then spread to India, Europe, and beyond. Most archaeologists believed this sudden blossoming of civilization was driven largely by environmental changes: a gradual warming as the Ice Age ended that allowed some people to begin cultivating plants and herding animals in abundance. The new research suggests that the "revolution" was actually carried out by many hands across a huge area and over thousands of years. And it may have been driven not by the environment but by something else entirely".

"Schmidt speculates that foragers living within a hundred-mile radius of Göbekli Tepe created the temple as a holy place to gather and meet, perhaps bringing gifts and tributes to its priests and crafts­people. Some kind of social organization would have been necessary not only to build it but also to deal with the crowds it attracted".

"Over time, Schmidt believes, the need to acquire sufficient food for those who worked and gathered for ceremonies at Göbekli Tepe may have led to the intensive cultivation of wild cereals and the creation of some of the first domestic strains. Indeed, scientists now believe that one center of agriculture arose in southern Turkey—well within trekking distance of Göbekli Tepe—at exactly the time the temple was at its height. Today the closest known wild ancestors of modern einkorn wheat are found on the slopes of Karaca Dağ, a mountain just 60 miles northeast of Göbekli Tepe. In other words, the turn to agriculture celebrated by V. Gordon Childe may have been the result of a need that runs deep in the human psyche, a hunger that still moves people today to travel the globe in search of awe-inspiring sights".

"Some of the first evidence for plant domestication comes from Nevalı Çori (pronounced nuh-vah-LUH CHO-ree), a settlement in the mountains scarcely 20 miles away. Like Göbekli Tepe, Nevalı Çori came into existence right after the mini ice age, a time archaeologists describe with the unlovely term Pre-pottery Neolithic (PPN)".
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Heber


 
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Heber
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 10:34:01 AM »

There is an interesting new post by Dienekes describing the origin of the Neolithic.

"The Neolithic of West Eurasia started, by most accounts, c. 12 thousand years ago. Its origin was in the area framed by the Armenian Plateau in the north, the Anatolian Plateau in the west, the Zagros Range in the east, and the lowlands of southern Mesopotamia and the Levant in the south. Intriguingly, the prehistoric site of Göbekli Tepe sits right at the center of this important area, in eastern Anatolia/northern Mesopotamia.

If there is a candidate for where the ur-population that became the modern Six lived, the early Neolithic of the Near East is surely it. This hypothesis makes the most sense chronologically, archaeologically, genetically, and geographically.

Migrants out of the core area would have spread their genes in all directions, becoming differentiated by a combination of drift, admixture, and the selection pressures they faced in different natural and cultural environments; some of them would acquire lighter pigmentation, others lactase persistence, malaria resistence, the ability to process the dry desert air or to survive the long winter nights of the arctic. These spreads were sometimes gradual, sometimes dramatic: they took place over thousands of years and from a multitude of secondary and tertiary staging points."
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Heber


 
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 02:51:52 PM »

"The Neolithic of West Eurasia started, by most accounts, c. 12 thousand years ago. Its origin was in the area framed by the Armenian Plateau in the north, the Anatolian Plateau in the west, the Zagros Range in the east, and the lowlands of southern Mesopotamia and the Levant in the south. Intriguingly, the prehistoric site of Göbekli Tepe sits right at the center of this important area, in eastern Anatolia/northern Mesopotamia.

Sounds like J2 (my maternal Y-DNA line) to me, and matches the J2 density maps.
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Y-DNA: R-L21 (Z251+ L583+)

mtDNA: J1c7a

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 02:19:19 PM »

The cover story of the June 2011 National Geographic magazine features the extraordinary archaeological site of Göbekli Tepe in southern Turkey. Built some 11,600 years ago, it is revolutionizing theories on the development of agriculture, religion, and civilization.

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/photos/gobekli-tepe/

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/musi-photography

Who were the people who build this monument. Could they have been R1b-M269 or their ancestors. The Myres study places R1b-M269 in Anotolia at that period. I have plotted the Myres data by Age and Frequency and speculated on the possible migration paths of M269 to his decendants M222.

http://www.box.net/shared/3vxrpcxib9
http://www.box.net/shared/hxp8ie25yv
http://www.box.net/shared/f74c09ti18
http://www.box.net/shared/5q6v31vqcx

Gobekli Tepe would appear to have marked the transition from hunter gatherer to farming. It is located on the northern edge of the Fertile Crescent.
One of the oldest Neolithic Cities was nearby Catal Huyuk.
http://www.catalhoyuk.com/history.html
Some of the first evidence for plant domestication comes from Nevalı Çori, a settlement in the mountains scarcely 20 miles away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neval%C4%B1_%C3%87ori

"At first the Neolithic Revolution was viewed as a single event—a sudden flash of genius—that occurred in a single location, Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now southern Iraq, then spread to India, Europe, and beyond. Most archaeologists believed this sudden blossoming of civilization was driven largely by environmental changes: a gradual warming as the Ice Age ended that allowed some people to begin cultivating plants and herding animals in abundance. The new research suggests that the "revolution" was actually carried out by many hands across a huge area and over thousands of years. And it may have been driven not by the environment but by something else entirely".

"Schmidt speculates that foragers living within a hundred-mile radius of Göbekli Tepe created the temple as a holy place to gather and meet, perhaps bringing gifts and tributes to its priests and crafts­people. Some kind of social organization would have been necessary not only to build it but also to deal with the crowds it attracted".

"Over time, Schmidt believes, the need to acquire sufficient food for those who worked and gathered for ceremonies at Göbekli Tepe may have led to the intensive cultivation of wild cereals and the creation of some of the first domestic strains. Indeed, scientists now believe that one center of agriculture arose in southern Turkey—well within trekking distance of Göbekli Tepe—at exactly the time the temple was at its height. Today the closest known wild ancestors of modern einkorn wheat are found on the slopes of Karaca Dağ, a mountain just 60 miles northeast of Göbekli Tepe. In other words, the turn to agriculture celebrated by V. Gordon Childe may have been the result of a need that runs deep in the human psyche, a hunger that still moves people today to travel the globe in search of awe-inspiring sights".

"Some of the first evidence for plant domestication comes from Nevalı Çori (pronounced nuh-vah-LUH CHO-ree), a settlement in the mountains scarcely 20 miles away. Like Göbekli Tepe, Nevalı Çori came into existence right after the mini ice age, a time archaeologists describe with the unlovely term Pre-pottery Neolithic (PPN)".

I think a lot of haplogroups would like to claim that monument!  Pretty amazing site.  If R was involved it would  be something well upstream of M269.
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Heber
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 05:50:04 AM »

The New Yorker had an interesting article entitled The Sanctuary, about Gobelki Tepe, by Elif Batuman in their December edition.

"Its Turkish name is Göbekli Tepe. It’s estimated to be eleven thousand years old—six and a half thousand years older than the Great Pyramid, about a half thousand years older than the walls of Jericho. The site comprises more than sixty multi-ton T-shaped limestone pillars, most of them engraved with bas-reliefs of dangerous animals. It’s believed to have been built by hunter-gatherers, who used it as a religious sanctuary. Formal religion is supposed to have appeared only after agriculture
The findings at Göbekli Tepe suggest that we have the story backward—that it was actually the need to build a sacred site that first obliged the hunter-gatherers to organize themselves as a workforce, to secure a stable food supply, and eventually to invent agriculture."

"Jared Diamond, the author of “Guns, Germs, and Steel,” considers agriculture to be not just a setback but “the worst mistake in the history of the human race.” In 2006, a cover article in Der Spiegel proposed Göbekli Tepe as the historical site of the Garden of Eden. The theory draws much of its power from a reading of the Fall as an allegory for the shift from hunting-and-gathering to farming."

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/12/19/111219fa_fact_batuman

That area is a desert now unable to support agriculture. At the time it was considered a paradise (Garden of Edan) for hunter gatherers and later farmers. Perhaps is was overfarmed or it is due to climate change.
You have to pay to read the full article which I did last night. It is a facinating read. Here is a link to another commentator which gives further insights into the article:
http://plasticbeatitude.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/the-findings-at-gobekli-tepe-suggest-we-have-the-story-backward/
My question is, when they buried the monuments 8K years ago and moved on, where did these Megalithic builders go to next? The Atlantic Facade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:54:10 AM by Heber » Logged

Heber


 
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