More P312* SNPs to come

[Mikewww]

RRocca posted this recently:

P312** guys, I'd like to make you aware of two developments:

I found three new SNPs (Z1897, Z1898, Z1899) in two P312** 1000 Genome Project samples, one from Colombia (HG01461) and the other from CEU (NA12347). The scores were lower than some of the other Z-series SNPs, but the fact that all three are found in the same two samples and in no other groups (U152, L21, Z196, etc.) is encouraging.

Also, last month, the anonymous researcher found DF27. While this SNP will probably not make it's way to the phylogenetic tree any time soon because of it's volatility (it has some back mutations in some samples and is heterozygous in others), it is interesting because it seems to be the parent SNP of both Z196 and Z225/Z229. If nothing else, it reinforces the importance of Z196 in Iberia.

That would be great find an SNP upstream of Z196 as it is scattered bunch of folks. I believe RRocca is saying DF27+ Z196- is found in someone of Iberian descent as well as the DF27+ Z196+ testee.

Unfortunately, if DF27 is unstable, it'll be hard to use. 

[Maliclavelli]

Very interesting. Anyway we did know the huge presence of R-P312 in Iberia. My theory is that it arrived from Italy 7500 YBP with the seafarers Agriculturalists, like G2a etc. We have already found some R-U152 in South America which presupposed the “Tuscan” R-U152* of the 1000 genomes project. Otherwise we wouldn’t understand why Iberia lacks, probably, the subclades upstream of it. Anyway an origin in Iberia of R1b1 etc. for me would be very good. I have always fought against the supporters of its recentness and its coming from Anatolia or Middle East.

[Mikewww]

Very interesting. Anyway we did know the huge presence of R-P312 in Iberia. My theory is that it arrived from Italy 7500 YBP with the seafarers Agriculturalists, like G2a etc. We have already found some R-U152 in South America which presupposed the “Tuscan” R-U152* of the 1000 genomes project. Otherwise we wouldn’t understand why Iberia lacks, probably, the subclades upstream of it. Anyway an origin in Iberia of R1b1 etc. for me would be very good. I have always fought against the supporters of its recentness and its coming from Anatolia or Middle East.

I agree that U152 is important to track. It's got to be nearly as old as the P312 TMRCA so it is every bit as important as P312*.

One problem though with U152 and seafaring agriculturists. It looks like they skipped the boot of Italy which wouldn't make any sense if they were carried with the Cardial Wares Neolithic.

[Maliclavelli]

One problem though with U152 and seafaring agriculturists. It looks like they skipped the boot of Italy which wouldn't make any sense if they were carried with the Cardial Wares Neolithic.

My theory is that from the Balkans arrived the E-V13 and that G2a was Italian, like the recent findings in Neolithic Spain has demonstrated.
My faith is that with them from Italy there were some R1b-s: certainly R-P312, the ancestor of all European subclades, and also R-U152, which has its center and origin in Central-North Italy. If we will find some of them in aDNA, we'll be able to calculate their  place of origin like we have done for E-V13 and G2a. See the paper of Lacan: it is all clear.
It will be very interesting to deepen the recent SNPs found by Rich Rocca you have spoken about above.

[Mikewww]

Victar reported a P312* WTY person was with a new SNP: L881+
I found him in the Howland project and asked him to join P312's project, which he has.

Even though the haplotree doesn't show it, he says his WTY show Z196-. He also says it has L875+ but no result given for DF19.

26020 Benjamin Tucker Howland, b. 1778, NC England R1b1a2a1a1b
The Walk the Y identifier is GRC 18950.

Can anyone read the DF19 location data on his WTY report?

[seferhabahir]

Victar reported a P312* WTY person was with a new SNP: L881+
I found him in the Howland project and asked him to join P312's project, which he has.

Can anyone read the DF19 location data on his WTY report?

He has no WTY allele result posted for DF19. His forward and reverse sequencing traces did not produce any readable results.