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Author Topic: DF23  (Read 10251 times)
GoldenHind
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 02:52:41 PM »


I would hazard a guess that the bags aren't even going to be L21.
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rms2
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 06:59:52 PM »

The spammer is gone.
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rms2
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 07:33:30 PM »

Like I said before, I'm going to order DF23, but it will probably be Monday before I do.

I would dearly love to get a positive result on this one.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 10:27:57 PM »

Steve,

Can you look and see how many L21 members have ordered DF23 so far? I can see atleast five or more in the L21 WTY as they have come across. Thx
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
rms2
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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 10:05:19 AM »

Steve,

Can you look and see how many L21 members have ordered DF23 so far? I can see atleast five or more in the L21 WTY as they have come across. Thx

I'll have to check later when I get home. I'll let you know.

I decided I couldn't wait until Monday, so I went ahead and ordered it. That's one more, at least.

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2011, 05:52:16 PM »

Good Deal. I have seen  quite a few Orders via the L21 WTY and had to think that the ratio should be bigger the the L21 DNA project. Interestingly when I ordered mine, the next day my Haplogroup reported 'Testing in progress'. A good sign that work started early may mean a nice rush was expected.

Wondering how many M222's are testing?

Thanks.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
rms2
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2011, 07:12:32 PM »

I count 15 on our "Pending Lab Results" page, but there are probably at least twice that many. I've seen quite a few new orders for it that did not make it into this Wednesday's lab batch (including my own). I deleted them with a bunch of other emails, however, and didn't count them, so I'm guessing at probably 25 or 30.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2011, 09:14:19 PM »

Thats a great initial start. Thanks for checking. We'll all just sit and wait as usual.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
cmblandford
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« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2011, 03:31:48 PM »

I ordered the DF23 test, but if I am DF23+ I will be very, very surprised, and pleased.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 03:32:30 PM by cmblandford » Logged

Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


rms2
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« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2011, 06:46:29 PM »

I ordered the DF23 test, but if I am DF23+ I will be very, very surprised, and pleased.

That's how I feel about it for myself. I hope I am DF23+.
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rms2
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2011, 07:52:09 PM »

Today I wrote a bulk email to the members of the R-L21 Plus Project advising them that DF23 is available and telling them how to order it (for those who don't know).

I made a point of asking the M222+ guys to test for it, as well as those of us who haven't tested positive for anything south of L21 yet.

Of course, the email won't go out until Monday at the earliest.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2011, 07:43:04 PM »

I just asked John the M222 project administrator for DF23 orders and he reports that:

> I see three orders  so far in the M222 project.
>
> 96185  Hannan
> 118913 Paterson
> 149181 O'Beirne
>
> Hanna is still listed in the project although he's M222-.

So we can follow the results.

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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2011, 09:14:57 PM »

I am found to be DF23 negative..... :(
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 10:23:29 PM »

I am found to be DF23 negative..... :(
We do have a DF23+ M222- result today though.
f96185 Hannan

It'll be interesting to see where DF23* is found.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
saphorr
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2011, 08:48:12 AM »

I am found to be DF23 negative..... :(
We do have a DF23+ M222- result today though.
f96185 Hannan

It'll be interesting to see where DF23* is found.

Are you sure about that ?  In the R-L21 Project SNP results list (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/default.aspx?section=ysnp) kit 96185 appears as M222+.
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 08:59:37 AM »

One Two M222+ went DF23+
DF23+
 96185 Michael Hannon, ~1847-1901 R1b1a2a1a1b4b  R-M222 DF23+, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L21+, L226-, L513-, L96-, M153-, M222+, M269+, M37-, M65-, P312+, P314.2-, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-

118913 Paterson R1b1a2a1a1b4b  R-M222 DF23+, M222+


Eleven L21+& M222- went DF23-

Sad results so far.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:03:08 AM by mjost » Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2011, 11:27:03 AM »

I am found to be DF23 negative..... :(
We do have a DF23+ M222- result today though.
f96185 Hannan

It'll be interesting to see where DF23* is found.

This is disconcerting. Either my eyes and hands are that bad or the lab changed a result. I'm pretty sure f96185 Hannan has been M222- for some time in my files. I just double checked old versions. I had him as "L21+ M37- M222- L96- L144- L159.2- L226- L513-" as of Sep 14th.

I'm pretty sure I actually saw the M222- when I first noticed the DF23+ on the FTDNA screen itself. I think the lab changed their old M222- call to M222+ in the last couple of hours.

His haplotype is a tad off the normal NW Irish so it made sense that he was pre-M222, but I guess now he is not.

Ysearch still has him as R1b1a2a1a1b4 with no "b" on the end.
http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?viewuid=MGPP9
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
cmblandford
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 02:56:00 PM »

Quote
DF23+ I will be very, very surprised

DF23-, that was just too much of a long shot.
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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


rms2
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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 07:39:59 PM »

I thought I remembered that Hannan was M222-, too, Mike, but his Haplotree page now shows him as M222+.

His was the only DF23+ result today.

I'm waiting for mine.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:40:57 PM by rms2 » Logged

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2011, 09:12:03 PM »

I thought I remembered that Hannan was M222-, too, Mike, but his Haplotree page now shows him as M222+.

His was the only DF23+ result today.

I'm waiting for mine.
Two old bad calls overturned in a day.  Hannan's M222- went to M222+ and Bonham's L21+ to L21-. The good news is the new tests were correct DF23+ and L459-. The bad news is if you are an L21* guy not within a reasonable GD of another L21+ confirmed guy then you need to think about validating your result. I guess the L459 test is one way to (un)validate L21... at least it was for Bonham.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:12:20 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
cmblandford
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« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2011, 09:28:35 PM »

Is Z245 a possible new L21 split?
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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


Mike Walsh
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« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2011, 09:37:17 PM »

Is Z245 a possible new L21 split?
Yes, but it could be another L459.
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rms2
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2011, 07:45:57 PM »

I thought I remembered that Hannan was M222-, too, Mike, but his Haplotree page now shows him as M222+.

His was the only DF23+ result today.

I'm waiting for mine.
Two old bad calls overturned in a day.  Hannan's M222- went to M222+ and Bonham's L21+ to L21-. The good news is the new tests were correct DF23+ and L459-. The bad news is if you are an L21* guy not within a reasonable GD of another L21+ confirmed guy then you need to think about validating your result. I guess the L459 test is one way to (un)validate L21... at least it was for Bonham.

I told him a long time ago to have his L21+ result checked because of his close match to Rick Arnold, who is L21-. Well, the rest is history.

He reminded me of that when I emailed him about this new development.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2011, 06:45:47 PM »

I thought I add this to the thread for the record from dna-forums on June 22 2011.

Quote from: 'GregRM'
I'm pleased to convey news that the researcher who has been discovering the Y-SNPs in the DF series has confirmed yet another new SNP under L21, named DF23. It looks like DF23 will be upstream of M222 (i.e. some L21* individuals will be DF23+, and all M222+ individuals will be DF23+). An updated phylogeny is shown at: http://www.box.net/s...pac2c5gmrc8z5re . We were able to identify this as a candidate using the combination of 1000 Genomes Project data and the whole-genome data of Jay Flatley (CEO of Illumina), available through Amazon Web Services (http://aws.amazon.com/datasets/3357).

Our investigation of the data showed a couple of candidate SNPs shared by both Jay Flatley (who we found to be M222+) and NA12154 (an anonymous Utahn in the "CEU" population group; L21+, M222-) from the 1000 Genomes Project data.

The researcher developed a set of primers to test for one of these candidates, DF23, and confirmed that it was genuine through conventional Sanger/capillary sequencing of a M222+ sample (turned out DF23+) and a L21+/M222- sample (DF23-). As with the other DF-SNPs, the primer info for DF23 will be sent to Thomas Krahn of FTDNA so he can hopefully offer this for sale within a few weeks.

Here are the details for DF23:

Build 37 Build 36 Ancestral Derived
17774409 16283803 G         A


Some more good news:
Some limited STR data for NA12154 is available from a paper by He et al. (http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0004684). Converted to FTDNA conventions (cf. http://dna-forums.or...apmap-samples/; thanks JaG!), I believe the STR data should be as follows:

Sample ID    Population    DYS19    DYS389I    DYS389II DYS390    DYS391    DYS392    DYS393    DYS437    DYS438    DYS439    DYS448    DYS456    DYS458    DYS635    Y_GATA_H4   DYS385
NA12154            CEU            14    13    29     24    13    14    14    15    12    11    19    17    17    23    11        11,14

I'll leave it to the L21 experts to analyze this and draw conclusions.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 06:47:07 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
eochaidh
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« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2011, 10:41:59 PM »

I got a DF23+ (positive) result tonight! I'm DF23+ and M222-  I've always thought I was some sort of pre-M222+

How many of us are there? I so glad to finally belong to a smaller subclade! I haven't even belonged to an L21 cluster before this!

Thanks, Miles Kehoe
FTDNA #97610
Ysearch  fsh3f
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Y-DNA: R1b DF23
mtDNA: T2g
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