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eochaidh
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« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2012, 09:58:17 PM »

One of the interesting aspects of this project is associating facial features with detailed autosomal DNA analysis. There is a good description of the process on the link below. This should give better data than using calipers on the skull.  They will have one of the 3 D cameras used in the study at this weeks exhibiion at the Royal Society. Is anyone planning to attend the exhibition?

"So far we have managed to collect 3D face photographs from about 920 volunteers,
most of whom have been people kind enough to respond to us getting in contact after the initial blood collection. Of these, we have genetic data for about 820 and should soon be in a position to start looking for genes involved in specific facial features."

http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/nl5.pdf



This is going to be fantastic!
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razyn
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« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2012, 08:49:40 AM »

The fair, which opened today, has another display about Doggerland -- a subject that has arisen a number of times on this forum.  Here's a news item about that:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4408016/Britains-lost-Atlantis-discovered.html

It would be good to hear from some member of the genetic genealogy community who actually attends -- if anyone does so.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #77 on: July 03, 2012, 11:49:05 AM »

Have seen a couple of attempts at the face composite.  I saw 2 different attempts at Irish but they came out very different.  One was the usual average which makes almost everyone look the same in Europe.  The other made the man look like Michael Flatley of riverdance fame and the women looked like the frumpiest in Europe! 
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Arch Y.
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« Reply #78 on: July 04, 2012, 12:31:56 AM »

Here's a little tidbit about that.  The exhibition in London will run July 3-8.

http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/genetic-maps/

I sure can not wait to see the paper and see what, if any, haplogroups are identified on the Website image shown as the groups are distinguished by colors.

Thank you for the link. I compiled a rough draft of some 134 pages of maps with variations of my surname across Europe and North America. I always kind of suspected that Derbyshire/East Midlands would be high on the list. When I "processed" the data from France I noticed that the surname is most concentrated in southern France. I did the same for Yeoman and it too had a larger concentration in southern France than other regions. Zooming in on my surname for specific regions of France I came up with Poitou-Charentes region and La Rochelle as the more localized region with a higher frequency of the surname. I wonder what the odds are that my ancestry is connected to this region of France. One reason why I mention this is due to a member in my subclade who I have a GD of 21 at 67 markers also share a rare marker DYS 448=17. He is one of the closest GDs to mine with the exception of a member in Italy and one in SW Germany (however those two are clustered separately from the one I'm in). The only thing I can think of is that my surname was given in Aquitaine or Gascony during the Hundred Years War. With other possibilities that Yeoman and Yeomans originated in France but stemmed off from a Germanic (Visigothic?) root. It's no wonder why I can't find Yeoman or Yeomans in any sort of historic documents in Britain prior to the 1300s. All I see is valectus or libri homini mediocre and that's it. The best I have is a William Yeoman of Eltham Palace who was bestowed a lifetime residency at the Corbett House for his fighting alongside the Black Prince in the late 1300s. The document is dated around 1400 I'm assuming that William Yeoman was in the Poitiers region of France, but I can't say for sure. It would be nice to find more information on him, but I doubt I can find anything more. What I really want is more testing in the the Poitou-Charentes-Maritime region.

Arch

Ah! found a portion of it http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/h5v1/body/Henry5vol1page0385.pdf
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 02:49:44 AM by Arch Y. » Logged
princenuadha
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« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2012, 04:38:47 AM »

The fair, which opened today, has another display about Doggerland -- a subject that has arisen a number of times on this forum.  Here's a news item about that:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4408016/Britains-lost-Atlantis-discovered.html

It would be good to hear from some member of the genetic genealogy community who actually attends -- if anyone does so.

Why genetic genealogy?

Man, it would be so awesome if they retrieved adna belonging to doggerland.
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rms2
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« Reply #80 on: July 04, 2012, 08:03:54 AM »

I'm hoping the results of this project become readily accessible to us, so that we can compare y-dna haplotypes, for one thing. I am also hoping the autosomal results make it into FTDNA's database somehow for use in the Population Finder aspect of FTDNA's Family Finder test.

It would be nice for those of us of British Isles origin to get a high-resolution breakdown of our results in Population Finder.
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razyn
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« Reply #81 on: July 04, 2012, 08:23:58 AM »

Brian Swann went to the exhibition yesterday and has been chatting about it with others well known in the GG field this morning, here:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-07/1341390095

I can't say that I'm best pleased with the drift of that conversation, but it's information, and there has been an information gap.

[Edit:  I've changed the url to one that's specifically Brian's post today about the Genetic Maps exhibit.  But it's part of a whole thread on the topic; if you knock off the stuff following 2012/07 in the url, you can read the larger conversation, sequentially.]
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:19:02 AM by razyn » Logged

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rms2
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« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2012, 09:14:42 AM »

Brian Swann went to the exhibition yesterday and has been chatting about it with others well known in the GG field this morning, here:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-07/1341330301

I can't say that I'm best pleased with the drift of that conversation, but it's information, and there has been an information gap.


I see what you mean. If they can get dna from snot, there are some samples readily available in a couple of those posts.

Happy Independence Day! God save the Republic!
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Heber
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« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2012, 09:33:06 AM »

LOL
There is also some interesting information such as full study expected in a month and use of 4 3D cameras to capture facial features and 17 distinct genetic areas in the Isles. I presume he means UK and Northern Ireland as the Ireland DNA Atlas is not yet integrated. Also some interesting speculation on cooperation with Ancestry.com. Wish I could have gone.
To all my US friends and cousins have a happy and sparkling 4th of July.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:34:36 AM by Heber » Logged

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Jdean
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« Reply #84 on: July 04, 2012, 11:05:48 AM »


I see what you mean. If they can get dna from snot, there are some samples readily available in a couple of those posts.

Happy Independence Day! God save the Republic!

:)

Happy Independence Day !!

Suppose that means there won’t be so many posts today :)
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eochaidh
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« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2012, 12:02:56 PM »

LOL
There is also some interesting information such as full study expected in a month and use of 4 3D cameras to capture facial features and 17 distinct genetic areas in the Isles. I presume he means UK and Northern Ireland as the Ireland DNA Atlas is not yet integrated. Also some interesting speculation on cooperation with Ancestry.com. Wish I could have gone.
To all my US friends and cousins have a happy and sparkling 4th of July.

My north of Ireland family couldn't be more opposite. The Quinn/Slamon family of Derry (paternal) have round faces mostly and are dark in coloring. My Erskine/McDonald family of Belfast and Antrim (maternal) have narrow faces mostly and are lighter in color.

Thanks for the Independence Day wishes!
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A.D.
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« Reply #86 on: July 04, 2012, 01:20:47 PM »

 My paternal line Quinn's from Tyrone are all tall (for the immediate area) around 6''  hair and blue eyes.
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A.D.
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« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2012, 01:39:38 PM »

Going back to eye colour I came across something about vitamin D being at low level in grain based diets. Comparing  N Europeans to other peoples living in areas of similar UV levels The  makes the difference. Fish and cod liver oil are high in vita-D and was given as the explanation why De-pigmentation didn't occur in the likes  the  Inuit  people. This could also mean that NW European Mesolithic peoples cold have retained more pigmentation due to their fish rich . If so then Blue eyes, fair skin etc would be Neolithic.
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Jean M
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« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2012, 04:44:13 PM »

Someone requested a pdf version of the map, which is now available at http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/media/46708/genetic-maps-main.pdf
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« Reply #89 on: July 04, 2012, 04:45:19 PM »

@ A. D. Yes that's what I say.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #90 on: July 04, 2012, 08:39:26 PM »

My paternal line Quinn's from Tyrone are all tall (for the immediate area) around 6''  hair and blue eyes.

That is very short indeed :0)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 08:40:53 PM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #91 on: July 04, 2012, 08:46:45 PM »

My paternal line Quinn's from Tyrone are all tall (for the immediate area) around 6''  hair and blue eyes.

That is very short indeed :0)

I have a good friend whose surname is Quinn. I am trying to talk him into y-dna testing. He is fascinated but isn't ready to part with the money for it yet.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #92 on: July 04, 2012, 09:16:04 PM »

I personally woulldnt get too excited by the idea of facial composites.  They by definition average out everyone and most countries end up looking very similar and middling in features, complextion etc.  I think it is only the more extreme minority that stand out for people when they make up stereotypes and they are lost in averaging.  I actually think that you see the real life effect of this today.  If you look at 19th or early 20th century photos in those studies of races it is immediately obvious that localities had very localised sometimes extreme and quirky/odd looks caused by close intermarrying within a parish for centuries.  However you rarely see those type of faces anymore among the current young generation. People are probably better looking (i.e. averaged) through mobility and widening of there genepool from a parish to a whole country.  I think people are averaging out and I associate those kind of character faces with unbalanced features you see in old photos with previous generations.  
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A.D.
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« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2012, 10:20:32 PM »

Emm six feet tall (guess whose taken a redner)
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eochaidh
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« Reply #94 on: July 09, 2012, 07:44:25 PM »

So what happend with that big conference? Didn't it end yesterday? I'd like to know where my ancestors came from and when they got to Ireland.

I'll wait....
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Heber
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« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2012, 09:30:56 PM »

Below are some interesting comments from Tim Janzen on the RootsWeb Forum.
It seems like the paper may be available in one month but access to the detailed data may take another two years.

"Dear Dave, Brian, Debbie, and others,
Thanks for your comments and insights. Brian, thanks for putting a
photo of the current autosomal clusters from the Royal Society display on
the ISOGG page on Facebook. I just took a look at it and thought I would
update my earlier comments:

As I look at the new map from the Brian I see 15 colors as follows:
dark purple squares, bright orange circles, bright yellow circles, light
blue circles, light blue triangles, dark blue crosses, pink circles, light
purple crosses, light lime green triangles, dark green crosses or triangles,
light yellow crosses, light orange crosses, white triangles, light orange
circles, and orange yellow squares. There are apparently 2 other colors as
well, but I can't seem to make them out since the resolution of the photo
isn't that good. Adding more colors makes this whole situation even more
complicated than it was before, but in any case it is nice to the 9
categories subdivided further. The following are some comments regarding
the new clusters in conjunction with the old clusters found on the map at
http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/genetic-maps:

1. Red on old map. Now changed into bright orange circles on new map.
Found in southeast England and extending up into the Midlands and
slightly north of there. I still think this cluster is primarily
Anglo-Saxon in origin.

2. Dark Green. Now changed into bright yellow circles. This cluster is
found in Devon primarily. Its precise origin is unclear to me at this
point, but it appears to be an old British cluster.

3. Brown. Now changed into dark blue crosses. This cluster is found in
Cornwall primarily. Its precise origin is unclear to me at this point, but
it appears to be an old British cluster.

4. Blue. Now changed into light blue triangles. This cluster is found
primarily in Hereford, Worchester, and Gloucester. There was a large Roman
settlement in Isca Silurum (Caerleon)(now near Cardiff). I still believe
that this cluster is tied to descendents from Roman settlers who came to
England about 1800-2000 years ago.

5. Orange. This cluster is now broken into two clusters in Wales, one
being shown as light purple crosses and the other as light yellow crosses.
The light yellow crosses are found in Dyfed in Wales. The light purple
crosses are also found in Dyfed in Wales apparently also in northeastern
Ireland and in southern Scotland. In southern Scotland this cluster also
appears to be broken into white triangles and light blue circles. I still I
suspect that this cluster is linked to tribes that spoke Brythonic languages
(Welsh and Breton). Its precise origin is unclear to me at this point, but
it appears to be an old British cluster.

6. Pink. Now changed into light pink circles. This cluster is found
primarily in northwest Gwenedd in Wales. Brian's photo of the new map
doesn't include the Orkney Islands so it is hard to tell if this cluster is
also there, but the new cluster is also likely seen there as well. I still
think that this is an old British cluster.

7. Light green. Now changed into primarily into light orange circles.
This cluster is found primarily in Yorkshire and in the northern part of the
Orkney Islands. Brian's photo of the new map doesn't include the Orkney
Islands so it is hard to tell if this cluster is also there, but the new
cluster is also likely seen there as well. I still believe that people in
this cluster are almost certainly descendents of the Vikings who are known
to have settled/invaded the Orkney Islands and Yorkshire ca 800-1000 AD.

8. Yellow. This cluster is now broken into two clusters, one being purple
crosses and one being orange yellow squares. This cluster is found in
northern Ireland and in Scotland. The cluster with the orange yellow
squares seems to be associated with the Y haplogroup R-M222.
This cluster is likely associated with Bronze Age settlers in Northern
Ireland and Scotland.

It will be interesting to see the publications that come from this data. If
someone has a higher resolution photo of the map that Brian photographed and
posted to the ISOGG Facebook page, it would be interesting to see that map.

Sincerely,
Tim Janzen"
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Heber


 
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A.D.
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« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2012, 09:48:49 PM »

I was wondering, if Mesolithic people were much taller, heavier and stronger than the neolithic people that followed then  Mesolithic women would probably be bigger than Neolithic men. Wouldn't that decrease the probability of matings guys don't normally go for women bigger (taller) than themselves. Either that or it was one wired place!
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Dubhthach
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« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2012, 03:23:40 PM »

I was wondering, if Mesolithic people were much taller, heavier and stronger than the neolithic people that followed then  Mesolithic women would probably be bigger than Neolithic men. Wouldn't that decrease the probability of matings guys don't normally go for women bigger (taller) than themselves. Either that or it was one wired place!

Never stopped Napoleon? Heck there are plenty of short guys who end up been successfull who end up with taller women. Basically anywoman who has ever dated Bernie Ecclestone has been considerably taller then him. Then again it helps that he's a billionaire.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2012, 05:02:19 PM »

Emm six feet tall (guess whose taken a redner)

Ah well its easily done.  Look at this:


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1015690/spinal_tap_stonehenge/
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A.D.
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« Reply #99 on: July 10, 2012, 09:21:42 PM »

I just see a 5'4'' , 8 stone farmer bumping into a 6'' 14 stone woman smelling of fish and running back to the fertile crescent! lol.

Alan -I watched that film 3x before I caught on it was a spoof.
Anyway my amp goes up to 20. hehehe!

How do you like them apples Nigel?
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