Recent Posts

Possible Origins Emerging

Another fellow P-310 tester of the name of "St Claire" claims that St Clare Family are one and the same as the  de Vallibus family these include names like, De Vann/De Vals/de Vaux/de Vallibus/de Wallibus/de Valley/de Wells/ et etc etc..........

Here is a paper connection to my Ballard & Vallibus Family - Hunt. B. 1563. Demise by Philip de Claris Vallibus (Clarival), and Emma his wife, to John Ballard, of St. Ives, for the life of the said Emma, of lands, houses, &c., in St. Ives and Eleswrth' (Elsworth). Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle, A.D.1249.

de Vallibus - Descended from one of the oldest and most honourable families of Normandy, which shared a conspicuous part in the government of that province previous to the conquest of England. As early as 794 a branch of the Vaux family (from which the name Wells is derived) inhabited Provence, Normandy, and were allied by marriage to most of the sovereign princes of Europe.

Line of Vaux traces back to - The Balt(h)i dynasty, Baltungs, Balthings, or Balth(e)s, existed among the Visigoths, a Germanic tribe who confronted the Western Roman Empire in its declining years. The Balti took their name from the Gothic word balþa (baltha; bald or bold). It thus meant "the Bold ones" or "Bold men". (Same has Ballard name Discripto).

Most of our P-310 ydna has been isolated in middle England North Italy/Alps and the Baltic sea on and island called Borholm - The Balthic Clan mentioned above and its King's ancestral home was Baltia, described by Pliny the Elder as an enormously large island, situated a three day Journey by ship from the shore of Scythians where they must have been at one time. could they be describing Borholm ??

Anybody with the R-L11* (P310*) or L11+ U106- P312- test who has serious medieval research for there family name is welcome to join my private facebook page to discuses this further at  

https://www.facebook.com/groups/563835056972796/


Adrian Ballard.

I got the results back from my dad's YDNA 12 test this week. It's the first test I've done on our family, and am very new to DNA testing. There was no haplogroup given, FTDNA is doing the free backbone test. Until then, we were curious if we could predict the haplogroup ourselves using y predictor websites. I used Whit Athey's predictor and came up with I1. My dad tried another one- not sure which, and came up with a G haplogroup. One of the questions I have is, if he is 100% Italian, for location would it be western Europe or Medditeranean?
Here are the results if anyone wants to try and tell me what you come up with! :)
Thanks!
DYS393  15
DYS390 22
DYS19** 15
DYS391 10
DYS385 13-13
DYS426 11
DYS388 15
DYS439 11
DYS389I 13
DYS392 11
DYS389II*** 30

[GD]

If you still match a cousin after 200plus years 100% what good is GD on guessing the age of any clade?

GD is not a particularly precise science, or term of science.  It's a creation of genealogists and is kind of useful in their near-term comparisons, such as the one you mention in which a difference of one allele on the relatively fast mutator DYS 389-2 indicates descent from a different uncle.  That may not be the only mutation, up or down, in this lineage; it's one you know about.  Other lineages have more, or fewer (mine has more) in two or three hundred years.

The more scientific term is variance, and its more scientific use is in comparing significantly larger samples, that are significantly less closely related via paper trails, etc.  These data become subject to the "law of large numbers" and thus statistically meaningful.  One allele can still go up and down randomly, more in one person than another and therefore (sometimes) more in one clade than another; but the large numbers tend to level this effect.

It is often alleged in our circles that SNP testing (and the STR variance calculation that may be able to date it, relative to other SNPs) is for anthropology, not genealogy.  I don't agree with that, and think that formulation reflects a tendency toward myopia in genealogists as a class.  But people who have both interests, or skill sets, don't see the need to separate the goals and methods of the one (genealogy) from the other (anthropology).

The same researcher can look at a sunset, the full moon, the moons of Jupiter, the Andromeda "nebula," or a photo from the Hubble telescope showing a few thousand galaxies in one frame.  It doesn't make you a different person to look farther away.  But it might put your revolutionary war veteran, or your Huguenot refugee ancestor, or William the Conqueror, in a little different frame of reference.  Those guys were not all that long ago, if one is also interested in one's paternal line from genetic Adam.

How may we explain that N9149 (Kasdin, R1b1/V88+) has in common with Alvarez (150747, R1b1/V88+) these PF SNPs (PF6249+, PF6263+, PF6271+) but not the others (PF4208, PF4330, PF5061, PF6868, PF7392), which are in common with the R1b1/L389 and subclades?
If these data are reliable, the most economic explication is that the mutation V88 occurred two times: the first in a R1b1/P25+ with the first three mutations and a second time in the ancestor of R1b1/P25 with the other mutations (PF4208, PF4330, PF5061, PF6868, PF7392) from which arose also R-L389 and subclades.
Of course we need more data, but this could explain also the different ethnic origin: the first from Middle East found amongst Jews and the second mostly from Iberia. We should then exclude that the one derives from the other.

P.S. But their markers values are so close that a similar scenario is unconceivable: or Spaniards derive from Jews or the other way around. About these SNPs the test has to be unreliable.

Conn, kit 17609, has transferred his Geno 2.0 results over to FTDNA and is clearly CTS2501+.

Again I don't see how we can figure this . Without a paper trail or way more markers tested .If you still match a cousin after 200plus years 100% what good is GD on guessing the age of any clade? I have a complete family history and some of my matches  that are 37 for 37 for me and the ones with 67 maker are 67 for 67 all of us descend from My 5th Great Grandfather Arnold Bruce Rev War Veteran of NC we are talking over 200 years and still match. Now a mutation did happen between Arnold and his Brother the number 12 Marker mutated from 30 to 31 Arnolds line having the newer 31

In the “R1b1 FTDNA Project” M415+ has been put on the same level of M343+, and the split would have been between R1b1/V88+ and R1b2/L389+. But these PF SNPs, absent in Raza but present in R-V88+ (150747: Alvarez) and in R-L389+ and subclades, demonstrates that the split happened after the separation between the Western R/M343/M415/L278+ and the Eastern R/M343/M415/L278+.

Joe, thanks for the input. Have you done any genealogical digging into your Dad's ancestors? Or is that the earliest ancestor that you have information on?

I can't say that I'm taking on Jarman's work, Joe. He was far more into the work than I am. Of course, I'm doing a dual track with 2 different tests, so perhaps there may be more info coming in than just the one test.

Joe, which test kit in the Robins project tested at L584? And how can you tell?

Bronco480,
Nothing on my Dad's paternal side genealogy.  As you may have figured out, 1930s Germany has some real challenges.  I have been known to have a beer with my Oma's side in Darmstadt and have a good history for her side of the family.  So not all is lost.

Several of your project members belong to the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) and I just looked at the snp page.  (37486 is L584-)  The ISOGG phylogenetic tree will hopefully be updated with some new snps soon.  L23/L150 or whatever we end up calling it needs more data points to figure this out, so thanks for the testing.  

I've had difficulties with European research, mostly in Croatia. My father's mother was from there, and still can't find the exact town in which she was born. At least you have an actual city to pin your search down to. Looking at the familysearch page, there doesn't seem to be that much of a dificulty for records in your area of research
.
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results#count=20&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Germany,%20Hessen,%20Darmstadt%22&subjectsOpen=427635-50

Particularily this online directory which you may find useful.
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1423571

Bronco480,
Thank you for those very useful links.  Another great site is the Online Ortsfamilienbücher or Online heritage books http://www.online-ofb.de/ which covers much of the former german language areas. Regarding Croatia, all I hear is its great.  So maybe you just have to go there for reseach.
Not many L23/L150 folks are showing up in Germany, so far.
Joe

I wanted to test to see how far off the tmrca predictor was, so I chose to compare myself with a family member. My family member and I last shared a common male ancestor 219 years ago. Our tmrca was predicted as being 297 years ago. So, there was only a 78 year difference. Not bad. I applied this same bit of info to my connection with the Frenchman and that puts us at a Tmrca occuring in 1033 AD as opposed to 957 AD. Of course if I take that same 78 year difference and subtract it from our base tmrca of 957 then we end up sharing a common ancestor in 879. If we even share a common ancestor at all. Its a pretty faint connection and I'm starting to wonder if its worth pursuing.

Explication for not knowledgeable people:

These mutations of the PF series

PF4208+, PF4330+, PF5061+, PF6249+, PF6263+, PF6271+, PF6868+, PF7392+,

present in N16605 Savage (a Jew in the R1b1 cluster A I think of Western European ancestry: he is so far the unique R1b1 tested) aren’t present in the Indian R1b1 Raza. As all the subclades of R1b1 have these mutations, the subclades derive from the Western European R1b1 and not from the Eastern one, which was my theory I have supported from many years.
My theory was based, for instance, upon YCAII=18-23 or 18-22 in the Western R1b1 and upon 21-23 or 23-23 in the Eastern one, that many thought unreliable, but now I have 8 SNPs of difference only in the PF series.